Empty Weight Confusion: A Fresh Look

Hi everyone,

In connection with the age-old question of the actual horsepower output of TDIs, I've done some more research on the definition of "kerb weight" (unladen weight) and am now quite confused as to whether the standard 75 kg passenger is actually included in that measurement.

According to § 42 paragraph 3 of the German Road Traffic Regulations (StVZO), "unladen weight" means: fully fueled and ready for operation, including onboard tools and spare tire - for vehicles other than passenger cars and motorcycles, an additional 75 kg is added as driver weight.

The unladen weight of my Golf 3, according to the catalog and owner's manual with driver, is 1195 kg. The vehicle registration document also states 1195 kg, but according to the German Road Traffic Regulations (StVZO), this refers to the weight "without a driver."

A while ago, I read on the GF forum that the unladen weight of an older Golf 3 TDI was 1120 kg. The difference of 75 kg compared to my car exactly corresponds to the average driver's weight, as if the other Golf had been "weighed" without a driver.

In the current catalogs for the Golf, Polo, and new Ibiza models, the unladen weights are again explicitly stated without including the driver.

Can anyone shed some light on this confusing situation? Isn't there an EU standard that specifies how to weigh a vehicle with a driver, or am I mistaken?
If the unladen weights, according to the documents, were indeed without a driver, the resulting weight surcharge in the vehicle registration certificate would indicate that there are still "too many" horsepower.

Hi Ulf,

HOW MUCH SHOULD YOUR GOLF CLUB WEIGH?????

Okay, I have the same model, but as a station wagon. According to the vehicle registration document, the unladen weight is also 1195 kg (I actually thought the station wagon was at least 100 kg heavier)!!!!!! At the very bottom of the document, there's an additional note that says: "Regarding item 14, up to 1281 kg."
Since I owned a wheel load scale, I weighed my Golf some time ago, and the result was 1420 kg (full tank, driver weighing 80 kg).
The weight indicated on the vehicle registration document is always the minimum value and does not include any optional equipment.
Rechne mal die Zusatzaustattung dazu (Radioalage 7kg, Nav System 7kg, Klima 15kg, Airbaganlage 10kg, 4 Türen 50kg, AHK 40kg...) auf welche Zusatzgewicht du da kommst. You won't believe it! / You'll be amazed!

If I enter your DZR value of 1275 kg (weight according to the registration document + driver), I get a result of 9.1 seconds, which is exactly what I achieve. If I enter 1420 kg, it should be 1 second more (then I would have an extra performance).

So far, I haven't found a definitive description of the EU empty weight, but I will keep looking.

Hi Ulf,

Attached is section 42, paragraph 3, of the German Road Traffic Regulations (STVZO) – this might be of interest to you.

Quelle: http://www.verkehrsportal.de/stvzo/stvzo_42.php3 wrote:

(3) The unladen weight is the weight of the vehicle ready for operation without interchangeable load carriers (containers designed and suitable for carrying loads and used on or with various carrier vehicles, such as containers, swap bodies), but with fully filled built-in fuel tanks, including the weight of all equipment carried during operation (e.g., spare wheels and tires, spare parts, tools, jack, fire extinguisher, side walls, tarpaulin frame with tarpaulin rails or rods, tarpaulin, anti-slip devices, counterweights), for vehicles other than motorcycles and passenger cars, plus 75 kg as driver weight. Interchangeable load carriers that connect vehicles or transmit pulling forces are considered vehicle components.

The important part is the section that states "for vehicles other than motorcycles and passenger cars, plus 75 kg as driver weight."

So, without the 75 kg for the driver (at least for cars)!!!

Hi Bertil.

I also have the cited section. In the initial post, I tried to reduce it to what is important for this discussion .

The stated weight of 1195 kg for my Golf is actually correct – the same number appears in the 1997 catalog, owner's manual, and vehicle registration document (for the base model).

For your possible reference, here are some TDI weights from my operating manual (version 1.97).
The 66 and 81 kW power outputs are the same across all versions (2-door, 4-door, and station wagon).
(Specifications for the 66kW Syncro are in parentheses.)
Two-door: 1195 kg (1325 kg), Four-door: 1225 kg (1355 kg), Estate: 1270 kg (1425 kg).

The weights listed explicitly include the driver. An additional charge of 30 kg is specified for automatic transmissions, and a general note indicates that further weight increases may apply due to features such as sunroofs or air conditioning.

According to this, your vehicle variant, including the driver, should weigh a minimum of 1270 kg – exactly 75 kg more than stated on your vehicle registration document. This difference could therefore actually be due to the "standard" driver weight.

I've wondered if the payload (which is calculated as gross vehicle weight minus unladen weight) could indicate whether the measurement was taken with or without a driver. A "relatively high" payload would suggest that the unladen weight doesn't include the driver.

For example, in the front-wheel drive TDI sedan, the gross vehicle weight is uniformly 1630 kg. Consequently, the maximum payload for the 2-door version is 435 kg, for the 4-door version it's 405 kg, and for the 4-door automatic version, it's 375 kg.
For a vehicle with a capacity of 375 kg, without the driver, it would theoretically allow for a maximum of 5 people, each weighing 75 kg. However, even a single toothbrush in the trunk or on the roof rack would cause the vehicle to be overweight.

IMO, this suggests that the unladen weight was actually determined including the driver, because then there would still be room for an additional 75 kg of luggage.

According to my manual, the curb weight of the TDI variant without all-wheel drive is 1695 kg.

The instruction manual seems to be the same then...
"...but the sticker actually says 1195 kg! And that's for the wagon version..."

Quote:

The weights listed explicitly include the driver. An additional charge of 30 kg is specified for automatic transmissions, and a general note indicates that further weight increases may apply due to features such as sunroofs or air conditioning. According to this, your vehicle variant, including the driver, should weigh a minimum of 1270 kg – exactly 75 kg more than stated on your vehicle registration document. This difference could therefore actually be due to the "standard" driver weight.

"...I weighed 1420 kg... so, another 150 kg more... (my weight = 80 kg)... this probably indicates a measurement without the driver."

Quote:

I've wondered if the payload (which is calculated as gross vehicle weight minus unladen weight) could indicate whether the measurement was taken with or without a driver. A "relatively high" payload would then suggest that the unladen weight does not include the driver.

... ??? ....

Quote:

For example, in the front-wheel drive TDI sedan, the gross vehicle weight is uniformly 1630 kg. Consequently, the maximum payload for the 2-door version is 435 kg, for the 4-door version it's 405 kg, and for the 4-door automatic version, it's 375 kg. For a vehicle with a capacity of 375 kg, without the driver, it would theoretically allow for a maximum of 5 people, each weighing 75 kg. However, even a single toothbrush in the trunk or on the roof rack would cause the vehicle to be overweight.

The problem with the low payload capacity had already been criticized in all the tests back then.

My gross vehicle weight (GVW) is 1695 kg, as you also mentioned.

Hi!

Regarding the claim about the low payload capacity of the G3 station wagon, I cannot confirm that. My second car, an AUDI A6 Avant 1.9 TDI, has a kerb weight of 1,610 kg and a gross vehicle weight of 2,085 kg, meaning a payload capacity of only 475 kg. However, the G3 station wagon, according to its documentation, can carry a load of at least 500 kg, even though the A6 is in a completely different vehicle class.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you exactly how much my A6 weighs.

Best regards, D.

According to the label, it weighs 500 kg, but according to the instruction manual, it only weighs 425 kg!

Bertil wrote:

... According to the label, it's 500 kg, but according to the instruction manual, it's only 425 kg!

Hi Bertil.

According to the instructions, if a driver weighing 75 kg is already in the vehicle, those 75 kg are deducted from the payload capacity.
Apparently, the vehicle's registration doesn't include a driver, which is why the permissible payload is 75 kg higher.

It seems quite simple to be done .

WE WERE SO BLIND!!!

In the official documents for the vehicle (FZ), the driver is not listed (as required by the German Road Traffic Regulations - STVZO), but the driver *is* included in the owner's manual.

Problem solved!

Hi Bertil.

... remains an open question for me:

Why does the registration document for my car state the unladen weight including the driver (1195 kg, exactly as stated in the catalog and owner's manual)? Wouldn't that be a "violation" of the StVZO ?

Similarly, in my wife's 2001 ALH Ibiza: according to the registration document, it weighs 1171 kg, and also stated in the owner's manual, with the note "unladen weight, ready for operation (including driver)."

Did section 42 of the German Road Traffic Regulations (StVZO) read differently in the past (specifically, between 1997 and 2001), and did it specify the unladen weight for passenger cars including the driver?

...next, please...

I can't tell you that either.