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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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11-09-2007, 14:19 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: The Ultimate Showdown |
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Hi.
I've been wondering for a long time what Mercedes was thinking when they "invented" the A- and B-class cross-member suspension.
A Ph.D. student in mechanical engineering once mentioned that this bend in the control arm represents a significant weak point.
And is that stuff only for the exhaust pipe?
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Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:10.
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Roger Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 10/11/2002 Posts: 3035 Karma: +88 / -0 Location: Rodgau 2017 Volkswagen Golf Premium Support
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11-09-2007, 14:31 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: A Car's Limits |
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dieselmartin wrote: | | And the quark is only for the exhaust pipe??? |
... which, in turn, is also feeling down  ...
Gruß
Roger
MJ 2018 GTI Performance DLBA
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:11.
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ulf Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 04/13/2002 Posts: 11058 Karma: +18 / -0 Location: Saarland 2023 MG ZS Premium Support
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11-09-2007, 14:35 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: A Car's Limits |
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dieselmartin wrote: | | And the catalytic converter only for the exhaust pipe??? | No, also active pedestrian protection: If a fellow citizen, in the free expression of their personality, steps in front of the bicycle, it folds away - and the person doesn't break their foot  .
Gruß Ulf
_________
MG4 Electric
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:11.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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11-09-2007, 14:50 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: The Ultimate Showdown |
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If it's even *THE* control arm.
The part ends in a rotating element that could steer the rear wheels in a mirror-symmetric fashion. So, if one wheel steers to the right (due to external forces), the other would steer to the left.
It's quite strange that...
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... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:12.
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matthiasTDI96 Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 02/27/2003 Posts: 5886 Karma: +251 / -0
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11-09-2007, 15:01 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: The Ultimate Showdown |
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Well, then the response was:
...parabolic axle with a selective damping system...
We can see what's behind that term in the photo, and it would certainly be interesting to see how it works technically. The fact is, this thing drives really well...
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:13.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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11-09-2007, 15:08 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: The Ultimate Showdown |
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Okay.
I'm just a drone (hey? I can't, I'm just one of them), and I'm looking under the skirts of every A- and B-class student.
m;
Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:13.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 03/13/2003 Posts: 10121 Karma: +29 / -0 Location: in der Werkstatt 2007 Volkswagen Passat Premium Support
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13-09-2007, 8:38 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: The Ultimate Showdown |
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The parts are not the control arms.
Those are indeed tie rods, as the B-Class has a multi-link rear axle.
I just took some pictures.
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Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:14.
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teileklaus Schrauber


Joined: 12/30/2006 Posts: 2643 Karma: +12 / -0 Location: Obrigheim 2005 Volkswagen Premium Support
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13-09-2007, 11:11 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: A Car's Limits |
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Roger wrote: | dieselmartin wrote: | | And the quark is only for the exhaust pipe??? |
... which, in turn, is also disappointed ... | .
Crushed tailpipe: Rear impact! Engine protection? 
Gruß, der Teileklaus
Touran 2017 DFG SCR 2,0, 150 PS Schalt
Fiat 500, Einkaufswagen
R1240R BIG Bore Tuningkuh, 142 NM
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:14.
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Roger Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 10/11/2002 Posts: 3035 Karma: +88 / -0 Location: Rodgau 2017 Volkswagen Golf Premium Support
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13-09-2007, 12:01 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: A Car's Limits |
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teileklaus wrote: | Roger wrote: | dieselmartin wrote: | | And the quark is only for the exhaust pipe??? |
... which, in turn, is also disappointed ... | .
Crushed tailpipe: Rear impact! Engine protection?  |
Or something like that  .
I just wanted to say that the probability of the bend having little to do with the end of the pipe, because it could have been bent in a different location.
Gruß
Roger
MJ 2018 GTI Performance DLBA
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:15.
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teileklaus Schrauber


Joined: 12/30/2006 Posts: 2643 Karma: +12 / -0 Location: Obrigheim 2005 Volkswagen Premium Support
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13-09-2007, 12:50 Subject: Kickboxing: Training, Techniques & Benefits |
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I believe the steering system offers the possibility that the rear wheel on the outside of the turn contributes more to the lateral force by being steered inwards from the outside (where the higher force is acting).
- Now comes the exciting part.
The effectiveness of the design increases as the load at the rear becomes greater.
and oversteer is reduced by "steering" the rear wheels as well.
As far as my technical understanding of the matter goes  .
Gruß, der Teileklaus
Touran 2017 DFG SCR 2,0, 150 PS Schalt
Fiat 500, Einkaufswagen
R1240R BIG Bore Tuningkuh, 142 NM
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:17.
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dieselmartin Profi-Schrauber


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14-09-2007, 8:38 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: The Ultimate Showdown |
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The A-Class has the same construction (just more nicely disguised  ).
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Transparency, Teamwork
... there was another T.
I don't know what the f*ck it was.
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:17.
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matthiasTDI96 Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 02/27/2003 Posts: 5886 Karma: +251 / -0
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14-09-2007, 9:23 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: The Ultimate Showdown |
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I understood it like this: Is the B-Class a high-priced version of the A-Class? Then it's clear that they are related under the sheet metal!
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:18.
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T3Surfer Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 09/17/2004 Posts: 1833 Karma: +34 / -0 Location: Frankurt 2001 Seat Toledo Premium Support
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16-09-2007, 0:12 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: The Ultimate Showdown |
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This construction is strange, and it looks quite cheap  . I'd rather have an old, robust W123  .
NA,Gehörlose wie ich können auch Schrauben! Ihr HÖRT ich FÜHLE! T3 TD EX-JX Jetzt 1Z mit 122PS und Renaultgetriebe Golf II TD Bj 84 512Tkm Passi 35I 1Z 468Tkm--> Seat Toledo AHF-- Toledo ARL 477Tkm mit Spritspartuning  99er T4 Syncro-Cross 100800km grad eingefahren
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:18.
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schimme Blaumann

Joined: 11/27/2005 Posts: 29 Karma: +1 / -1
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21-09-2007, 9:19 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: The Ultimate Showdown |
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I'd like to contribute something briefly as well...
Whether it's a weak point or not, the parts are recalculated using FEM (Finite Element Method) in Catia or elsewhere during the design process, and designed to withstand the usual operating loads; at least, theoretically. 
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:19.
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matthiasTDI96 Profi-Schrauber

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21-09-2007, 9:45 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: The Ultimate Showdown |
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Nowadays, cars are only designed on computers, and we can only hope that any problems will be detected beforehand... otherwise, we'll be the ones who look foolish.
After the debacle with the first A-Class, Mercedes certainly had some serious discussions about it... although the rust problem seems to still not be completely resolved within the company.
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christians Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 09/05/2002 Posts: 2105 Karma: +17 / -0 Location: Sauerland
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21-09-2007, 12:35 Subject: Mercedes vs. Physics: The Ultimate Showdown |
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It's unusual, but I don't find that part to be concerning.
Gruß Christian
A6 BPP, Ex-A6 AKN (Gurke), Ex-Audi100 92 AAT (5Zyl.)
Translated on 11-09-2026, 6:20.
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