Passat 3BG: Rear Axle/CV Joint Problems

Hello colleagues,

Here's the translation:

"Another problem again. My car now has about 195,000 km (approximately 120,000 miles) on it, and nothing has ever been done to the suspension. Only the shock absorbers are "new" (about 50,000 km, but actually still okay), and a few months ago, both outer CV joint boots were replaced. The ball joints were, at least at that time, still in good condition."

Today, I was driving into a parking garage and, with the steering wheel almost fully turned to the left, I accelerated sharply (in second gear) while taking a turn. At that moment, it felt like I had a huge bulge in the tire.

The tires are new (Michelin PS2, 225/45 R17). The car handles perfectly well in fast corners, even at the extreme limit. It doesn't pull to one side when braking, and it doesn't have any noticeable imbalance (at any speed).

The only symptoms I sometimes experience are:
"When steering while stationary and then starting to drive, it feels like there's some play somewhere. I checked the ball joints on the suspension arms, and they seemed to be okay."
2) Then I hear a slight thud from the rear right side when I drive over a pothole, but it could also be something on the body of the car (like the jack or first-aid kit, or something else). It only happens with deeper holes and isn't really bothersome, so I haven't paid much attention to it so far.
3) If the road isn't perfectly level, I have to slightly correct the steering, maybe 10 degrees in each direction. The wheel alignment and toe are correct. I attributed it to the aging suspension and didn't pay much attention, as the road handling was still excellent and the tire wear was consistent with my driving style.

During the brake pad replacement a week ago (approximately 1,000 kilometers), I visually inspected the rubber bushings, but didn't notice anything unusual.

I suspect you're referring to the rubber bushings on the four steering joints or the driveshaft. How do I check these components while they're still installed? Can I use a pry bar to check the bushings? But what happens if they're already defective, unlike new ones?

Thank you for your answers .

Tom.

Since nothing has been replaced yet and there's quite a bit of wear and tear, I would recommend replacing all of them.
It might sound strange, but ultimately, it saves you a lot of stress.
On eBay, you can find Meyle control arms for €369 (they used to be €309 ). I haven't heard of any defects so far, and according to TÜV (German technical inspection authority), they are also better than the original ones (which isn't saying much ).
Because after replacing a control arm, it's very likely that the next one will need to be replaced soon, as removing the old one usually requires force (especially with higher mileage).
Replacing individual control arms can cost up to €70 per arm from brands like Meyle... plus the hassle of diagnosing and replacing the faulty one each time. Personally, I don't think it's worth it.

In my experience, the control arms were usually so damaged that you could feel the play by wiggling the tire (when the car was raised on jack stands).

How do I check these things while they are installed? Using a crowbar on the sockets, but what about defective ones that new ones wouldn't?

Hello Tom,
right, or with a large, long screwdriver:

Try pushing directly on the connectors and see how much play they have.
It shouldn't be too large (only a few millimeters, and only with significant force).
You should do the same with the ball joints.

The older Passat models had a lot of problems with the front axle. The virtual pivot points mean that relatively large forces are exerted on the actual pivot points (the distance between the virtual and actual pivot points creates a lever effect).
It's actually quite impressive how long your axle lasts under these circumstances.

However, I wouldn't change anything about the blue haze. If anything is worn out or damaged, there needs to be some slack or play in the system.

Best regards, Jochen.

You're welcome, cksIT.

Yes, I've also heard of Meyle. Actually, the car is still driving well, but right now I'm short on money (the car has been costing me a lot lately) and time. I will definitely install a complete set soon, but just the bushings for the front cost over EUR 100.00. I'll also put new bushings in the rear. Then I'll only need to have the wheel alignment done once. What surprises me is that they lasted so long.

I'm now convinced that the upper bushings have become too soft. When I have everything disassembled, I'll be able to see it. When it's installed, the only way I can think of to check it is with a shaking test stand (which no one has), or with a pry bar (but it's actually difficult to get to the top).

The disassembly shouldn't be too difficult; the only potentially problematic part is the screw on the wheel carrier that secures the two upper ball joints, but those were already removed and replaced recently.

See you later.

Tom.

Well, for 369€, you get the complete set and not just the sockets.

You can have this test done at any ADAC testing station (and it's even free if you're a member). In addition, you'll also receive information on braking performance, a headlight test, and a non-representative shock absorber test.

Measuring the alignment was useless for me, as the control arms didn't change anything... although it might not hurt .

@Jochen
I'll test it again, but it's not performing too badly. I also don't understand how these things lasted so long, but at least one of mine seems to have a component that lasts a bit longer...

The "older" 3BG Passat should have had the better components that were also used with the 3B model. I probably have a different configuration in the front due to the V6 engine and Trendline trim level, which might be why it's only happening now.

@cksIT
It was thought that the alignment needs to be checked when replacing the upper control arms. Mine was checked recently (about 30,000 km) and the result was incorrect, so it will definitely need to be checked again with the new control arms.

If it's free with ADAC, I'll inquire about it. I'm interested.

There are inspection stations that work for ADAC, and in Darmstadt, there's one where you just need to show your card and you can get on stage.

there are http://www.adac.de/Auto_Motorrad/Reparatur_Pflege/Pruefzentren/default.asp?ComponentID=33214&SourcePageID=121330
A list of testing centers --> PDF.


Subject: Measuring track gauge: It certainly wouldn't hurt, but that was just an experience report. In my case, it didn't make a difference, and how could it, since there are no elongated holes... I haven't noticed any difference in others either; they weren't even driven for adjustment.

Quote:

and a few months ago, both outer CV joint boots were replaced. The joints were, at least at that time, still in good condition. Today, I was driving into a parking garage and, with almost full steering lock (left), I was turning a corner with almost full throttle (acceleration in 2nd gear). At that moment, it felt like I had a huge flat spot on the tire.

Okay, almost everything has already been said about the axle. Were the replaced seals already defective? If so, and you drove with them like that for a while, the joint might be damaged. The same thing happened with the predecessor of my car (also a vehicle that wears out quickly). In that case, the joint failed a few weeks after the seal was replaced. This was also noticeable by a high-frequency cracking sound when cornering under load.

@BM
Okay, it's been broken for a few weeks. But there were no cracking sounds, and the joints felt 100% okay when I replaced them. I'll check it again when I replace the control arms.

Quote:

also, another material destroyer.

Well, it's not like I drive in a way that's designed to make everything break as quickly as possible . After all, my control arms last longer than average, as do my clutch, exhaust, and maybe a few other things that haven't been replaced yet...

Yesterday, I replaced the control arms on my own Audi because they were making quite a loud cracking noise... The frustrating thing is, all the joints were actually still in relatively good condition.
(except for an old tie rod, whoever came up with the idea to use ball joints there, Meyle definitely uses rubber-metal bearings).
After the replacement, the surprise was that there was no more cracking sound, and even the noise I thought was coming from the driveshaft was gone... it seems it was also coming from the control arms.


and another reason to take the set: if you exchange them now, you still have something from the control arms; it doesn't add as much value anymore right before selling the car .

Quote:

Today, I drove into a parking garage and, with almost full steering lock (left), I took a turn with almost full throttle (acceleration in 2nd gear). At that moment, it felt like I had a huge bump in the tire.

Quote:

"Quote:" also, another material destroyer. Well, it's not like I drive in a way that makes everything break down as quickly as possible. icon_confused.gif After all, my control arms last longer than average, as do my clutch, exhaust, and maybe a few other things that haven't been replaced yet.... icon_razz.gif

Explain that to us .

By the way, I'm still using the original control arm set, and I've been waiting for two years for something to break. Apparently, the problem has almost disappeared since the modification in model year 99. Just look at Mercedes 202 or BMW models; their ball joints sometimes only last for under 100,000 kilometers.

BM wrote:

1) Explain that to us . 2) By the way: I'm still using the original control arm set, and I've been waiting for 2 years for something to break. Apparently, the problem has almost disappeared since the modification from version 99 onwards.

Okay, I don't always drive gently. In this particular case, it was like this: I was in second gear, going up the first ramp. At the top, I almost had to stop because of an old man. To get to the second ramp, I had to take a sharp left turn (almost full steering lock) at around 1,000 rpm. To avoid shifting into first gear, I just gave it enough gas to get the engine back up to 1,500 rpm, which is where I could drive up the ramp. Without launch control, it would crawl up; with launch control, I don't even need to give it full throttle.

Therefore, almost full throttle with the steering wheel almost fully turned. I wasn't necessarily slow because of it, but in that situation, with full throttle in 1st gear, it would definitely have spun out even more...

"I suspect that too. I find it quite unlikely that the handlebars of a 3B would have stayed on for so long, given what one reads about them..."

EDIT:
And it happens as it must . When driving over significant bumps in the road, up to approximately 50 km/h, there's a noticeable thumping sound coming from the front, on the left side (not the side closest to the curb ). There's also a sort of ticking, high-pitched noise.

Positive: Now I will be able to more easily narrow down the error .
Negative: In 99% of cases, I have to install the entire set from Meyle. Man, this vehicle, considering its cost, belongs to the very top of the upper class...