Bremsentuning? | Posts 112+

Hello,
I'm surprised by the extent of rust on my rear brake discs, which were installed in May 2008, meaning they've been in use for 30,000 km.
At the time, ATE Powerdics were installed on the front, and ATE rotors with brake pads were used. The original rotors, which were factory-installed, were undersized, but all of them (front and rear) were completely free of any surface material and, except for the mandatory outer edge/ring on the rear, were rust-free.
The "new" brake discs on the rear axle are also partially slightly rusty in the area where the brake pads make contact, and they are definitely not shining clean (even though the car has only been driven and parked in dry conditions for days/weeks).
"The driving conditions and load remained the same, so I thought the issue might be related to the rear brakes. However, according to the workshop's report, the attached document shows excellent values, indicating that there is no technical defect."
So far, so good, the vacation trip can go ahead.
I understand that the rear disc brakes contribute little to the overall braking performance when the 3BG variant is not engaged. However, I don't understand the "appearance" of the rear disc brakes compared to the pristine condition of the front discs after the replacement. Is it purely a cosmetic issue that must be accepted? Can the control of the rear brakes be checked/influenced using VCDS?
haithamina

You can only adjust your braking behavior. Before coming to a stop in the garage, engage the handbrake for about 10 meters, but then brake more firmly. This will keep the brake pads clean.
Many people use this to save fuel.

Hmm, that could certainly be helpful, but:

haithamina wrote:

Hello, I'm surprised by the extent of rust on my rear brake discs, which were installed in May 2008, meaning they've been in use for 30,000 km. The original windshields, which were factory-installed, were all undersized (both front and rear), but they were all completely clear. The driving profile and the load have not changed...

Let's see what happens when it's fully loaded and driving across the Alps. The rear brakes should have more work to do in that situation. If they can't brake reliably under those conditions, then...
haithamina

Schleicher

off topic:
@ Rainer
Definitely, as indicated in the signature, anyone who can do anything other than sneak around with it is an alien.

Recently, I was a passenger in a Cayenne with 550 horsepower on the test track in Leipzig. Although I have a good eye for braking points and speed due to my own activities, I couldn't believe what is physically possible with such a heavy and high vehicle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlDIucSq2V4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3geJWbcaqc
To get to the "Fred" corner: The tires were worn out after just a few laps on the 3.7 km track, thanks to constant drifting in every corner. The brakes smelled a bit strange, but they weren't rusty. It was interesting that I didn't see any Cayennes with drilled brake rotors or similar modifications, whereas this was very noticeable on the lower-profile tire cars (like the 911s).
haithamina

I have just added an S1 kit for the AVB (155 hp) to my product range.

With that, you can already get the brakes to work.

It's possible that when riding in flat terrain, you might not need as much braking power. I've never experienced this problem because I've never lived in a flat area.

Best regards, Rainer.

I also have the braking problem... although I'm not in a flat area. I also tend to drive more defensively with the Golf, and mostly just to and from work.

You just have to use it from time to time... with modern vehicles, it can often be done with a filter cleaning relatively quickly... first, drive wildly and then brake as hard as possible .

Or develop a brake control unit that keeps the rotors rust-free...like the Mercedes SBC brake from the old E-Class, which was supposed to be so great (dry brakes...), but which they no longer produce .

matthiasTDI96 wrote:

So, a Mercedes SBC brake system from the older E-Class, which was supposed to be so great (dry brakes...), but which they don't make anymore

.
Sure, they still exist, actually almost only in the smaller models. Bosch has further developed them. They now work quite well in the new models as well.
Personally, I still don't think it's a good idea.

Okay, let me help you with this... The SBC braking system from the W211 (also found in the CLS, SL, and in a different form in the Maybach) is no longer used in the current E-Class. Instead, it uses a conventional braking system with some features, such as the auto-hold function (which is actually quite common). Didn't the SBC system, after the largest recall campaign in history, essentially cease production for mass-market vehicles?

matthiasTDI96 wrote:

Now, please help me with this... The SBC braking system from the W211 (also found in the CLS and SL, and in a different form in the Maybach) is no longer used in the current E-Class. Instead, it has a conventional braking system with some features, such as the auto-hold function (which is actually quite common). Didn't the SBC system, after the largest recall campaign in history, cease to be produced in large quantities?

I haven't seen the brand new E-Class yet. I definitely have: a W221 S-Class model from 2008 and an R230 SL model from 2009.

Regarding the W211: One of my customers has an S211 (the wagon version of the W211), with SBC (Sensors Brake Control) and has driven over 200,000 km without any problems.

If you install the EBC Green Stuff pads on the rear, I assume the rear rotors will also be clean .

matthiasTDI96 wrote:

Now, please help me with this... The SBC braking system from the W211 (also found in the CLS and SL, and in a different form in the Maybach) is no longer used in the current E-Class. Instead, it has a conventional braking system with some features, such as the auto-hold function (which is actually quite common). Didn't the SBC system, after the largest recall campaign in history, cease to be produced in large quantities?

The SBC (Steering and Braking Control) was even removed from the MOPF (Modellpflege) version of the W211 series.
For the first time, in this case with a Mercedes-Benz vehicle undergoing a model update, the body had to be changed.

Okay, so...
We drove fully loaded to Liguria and often had to brake on the San Bernardino pass and subsequent hills. While the rear ATE brake discs are slightly less rusty, they still don't look like the previously installed OEM discs, which were completely clean and shiny all the way to the outer edge. Hmm, so it seems that even when fully loaded and driving in the mountains, it doesn't really get any better!
Could this be related to the ATE Powerdisc brakes now installed at the front? If they actually provide better braking performance than the original equipment (OEM) version at the front, shouldn't the rear brakes also be working harder (during straight-line driving and braking)? Also, the rear disc on the left side isn't perfectly flat. You can hear this clearly (with the windows open and driving past stone walls, the brake pad scraping is uneven). Overall, I'm not convinced about the rear ATE discs. The front ones, on the other hand, are excellent. The grooves provide better braking performance in the rain, but there's some rubbing during longer braking periods (e.g., on highway off-ramps) at higher brake disc temperatures.
haithamina

According to my experience, brutal braking and erratic driving will not compensate for a bad brake.

The caliper bolts on Passat brakes often get stuck due to corrosion (is that what they're called?).
"So, those are the bolts that you hold with the 14mm wrench while you unscrew the 13mm screws from the saddle. These are protected by a sleeve and should automatically return to their original position."
Do the rear brake calipers on the Passat tend to seize up like those on the A3?
I had to clean mine every year to ensure they worked properly.

Tagessuppe wrote:

In my experience, brutal braking and erratic driving will not compensate for a bad brake. In Passat brakes, the floating caliper bolts often seize up (is that what they're called?). So, those bolts

that you hold with the 14mm wrench when you unscrew the 13mm screws } from the saddle.

Hi Tagessuppe,
Brutal braking? Chaotic driving? That's more likely to be done by young drivers, right? I only do it occasionally, maybe on two wheels }. Driving across the Alps with a full load should also lead to heavy front brake usage (unlike an empty front-wheel drive car), and I had hoped to have clean brake discs again.

"I'll take a look at the rear brakes/pads, etc. when I switch to winter tires and see if everything is working properly. But it's not about brake pads that are constantly sticking or seizing after using the handbrake. It's more the opposite: the rear brakes don't seem to be gripping enough, and the rotor is corroding, not just on the edge, but also on the area that's typically rust-free. It's also strange that the original rear brake rotors were so wonderfully rust-free. Now, it's a completely different picture, even though they're ATE brand. However, according to the brake test report, it's just a visual "problem," so it's not a major issue..."
haithamina

I'll say it again: try using Greenstuff only on the back.