Wassereinspritzung beim TDI | Posts 16+

Hello soave,

That's quite a statement!

Sure, I'm all too familiar with the acceleration attempts after a traffic jam (A40!!! ):
For example, after an accident, the goal is to clear the railway line as quickly as possible, so the system first alerts all subsequent trains because the locomotive's temperature sensor has detected a problem.

Can you describe where you attached the nozzle?
As close to the intake manifold as possible, or further upstream?
Did you register the system yourself, or do you know if it's possible to do so?
Since even nitrous oxide systems, which still offer a greater potential for performance, can be registered!

But thank you in advance, that's already helpful information!

Regards,
Michael.

Hello everyone!

I can only say positive things about a water-air heat exchanger (WAES). Primarily, it achieves a reduction in the temperature of the intake air. In addition, the exhaust emissions are being reduced.
I installed a WAES myself and was initially a bit disappointed because I expected a few more horsepower. However, if you add 1/3 to 1/2 methanol or ethanol (alcohol), which is recommended in the winter, the performance gain is significant. Normally, it injects fuel depending on the boost pressure, specifically starting at 0.85 bar. Since the turbocharger pressure curve is quite steep in TDI engines, the fuel injectors fire relatively frequently.
In my opinion, a particularly pleasant advantage is experienced when you've been stuck in traffic on the highway. Due to the limited airflow in traffic jams, the engine's coolant temperature rises quickly, which means it can no longer effectively cool the intake air when traffic starts moving again. The result is something that many people have probably noticed: the engine suddenly feels completely sluggish. With the WAES (presumably referring to a water injection system), things immediately improve. This effect can also be achieved without using alcohol.

I don't want to be without it anymore.

Regards,

soave

Hello,
I have a few questions about that.
Do you use distilled water for that?
'How much water is typically consumed per 100 kilometers under normal driving conditions?'
3. Where can I get methanol?
4. What should be the size of the water tank so that you don't have to check the fuel and refill the water every 100 kilometers? Where did you install it?
5. What about fuel consumption? Has anything changed?
6. Have you ever taken sick leave related to water injection?

I can imagine that this might also be of interest to others.

Regards,

Eike.

Have fun!!!

[url][/url]http://forums.tdiclub.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=002533&p={MARKER}

Hello again!

@eike:

Do you use distilled water for that?

Yes, to prevent the nozzle from becoming clogged with scale.

'How much water is typically consumed per 100 kilometers under normal driving conditions?'

Well, it's not that simple. Under 'normal' driving conditions, you can get about 400 km with 4 liters of fuel. However, if you're driving on the highway with constant full throttle – and I mean *constant* full throttle – those 4 liters will only get you about 150 km.
In everyday use, 5 liters should actually be enough for a full tank. Then you probably won't have much fun.

3. Where can I get methanol?

Previously, you could buy that in pharmacies, but unfortunately, that's no longer possible. You really need connections to get it now. I use denatured alcohol (ethanol), which isn't as effective, but it's also cheaper.

4. What should be the size of the water tank so that you don't have to check the fuel and refill the water every 100 kilometers? Where did you install it?

I initially 'misused' the windshield washer reservoir because the intake path can't be very long. Ideally, I'd find a water tank similar to the Cossi type in the trunk. However, you would need to use an additional pump to fill the tank in the engine compartment. It seemed too complicated for me at first.

5. What about fuel consumption? Has anything changed?

Supposedly, water injection should reduce fuel consumption, but I didn't notice any difference. Also, diesel engines don't 'knock' like gasoline engines, so they don't need to use fuel for cooling. The control unit won't even notice anything.

6. Have you ever taken sick leave related to water injection?

No. But I was told that the NOx emissions should decrease by 20%.

@michael:

Can you describe where you attached the nozzle?

I have an AFN engine. I placed the nozzle in the last bend before the intake manifold (there was a pre-determined spot in the plastic pipe). It's about 15 cm away from the intake manifold. I also considered installing the nozzle directly into the intake manifold, but that seemed too complicated for me, as I didn't want to weld anything. Furthermore, I was told that a certain distance is necessary to ensure that the mist mixes evenly with the intake air.

Did you register the system, or do you know if it's possible to do so?

My understanding is that nitrous oxide injection systems, like LLK modifications, are exempt from registration. Nitrous oxide systems can only be registered if an additional switch is installed that deactivates the system for use on public roads. The use of nitrous oxide injection is not permitted on public roads. Of course, everyone who owns a nitrous oxide system will adhere to that .

Regards,

mild, gentle, soft, sweet

It was very new to me that this could happen with a TDI engine!

But, just to describe it accurately so that it can be replicated, what kind of pump did you use?
What pressure do you use to inject the water/alcohol mixture?
What kind of nozzle did you use?


Thank you. Best regards.

Nozzle: 0.6mm
Pump pressure: 14 bar.
Flow rate: 250 ml/min.

This is a standard water injection system, as used in turbocharged gasoline engines.

mild, gentle, soft, sweet

soave wrote:

Hello again! Previously, you could buy that in pharmacies, but unfortunately, that's no longer possible. You really need connections to get it now. I use denatured alcohol (ethanol), which isn't as effective, but it's also cheaper. soave

1. Ethanol and alcohol are the same thing: C2H5OH.

Do you have a diesel car?

At a compression of 30 bar.
Ethanol will inevitably explode.

1. Ethanol and alcohol are the same thing: C2 H5 OH

Did I say something different?

Methanol is definitely better than ethanol. However, methanol is poisonous.

Do you have a diesel car?

Yes, TDI-AFN.

mild, gentle, soft, sweet

Methanol is available from chemical suppliers, but not always in small quantities. For example, model airplane enthusiasts use it to power their engines. The advantage of methanol likely lies in its higher heat of vaporization (stronger cooling effect).
It would be necessary to perform a complete calculation to determine whether water increases efficiency. Based on the arguments for and against, it's not possible to say definitively. The thermodynamic advantage of allowing a liquid to evaporate in the process is that, unlike with gas/air, there is no significant work required for compression. In the comparison of gas turbines to steam turbines, this more than compensates for the disadvantage of the lower maximum process temperature.
However, unlike our engines, a portion of the vaporization energy can be recovered in steam turbines.
I'm lazy, so I'm actually looking forward to writing my diploma thesis.
Christian

Hello,

I spoke with my brother. They installed it at the University of Applied Sciences on trucks with diesel engines (Deutz, etc.), so unfortunately, it wasn't installed on a 1.9 TDI. The conversion is a bit more complex because the water isn't injected into the airflow, but rather 'layered' with the diesel. That is, first diesel, then water, and then a bit of diesel again. To achieve this, a completely new injector nozzle was designed. The performance increase was less than 10%, which is also due to the fact that the goal was to reduce emissions.

Post-Christmas greetings and a happy New Year to everyone.
Stefan.

Too bad.

That's really too complicated.
To pump two different media through the same injector nozzle?
She's already quite tall, and she's even taller next to the truck!
I can't imagine being able to inject water, then diesel, and then water again within such a short time.
Not bad for a diesel.

But with the airflow, it should be enough!

I hope you had a wonderful Christmas, and I wish you a happy New Year, 2003.

Best regards,
Michael

Hello.
Thank you to Stefan for following up.
Finally, it states that the water is injected directly into the combustion chamber. That's actually what I think of when I hear about water injection. However, I believe that the evaporation of the water could convert temperature into pressure. And thus, the water (and I mean water alone, without any additives) can improve performance.

While injecting into the intake manifold might cool the intake air, it actually fills the combustion chamber with water vapor, not air. However, this can definitely be used to significantly reduce pollutant emissions and combustion temperature.

Best regards, Ernst.

Hi,
'Yesterday, I also installed a WAES system from tolleteile.at in my PUMPE DÜSE TDI 100 HP engine! However, I'm currently only running it with water. I haven't been able to notice any significant differences yet!' Is the use of spiritus (ethyl alcohol) or methanol more effective?

I would like to share my experiences with WAES here.
I installed a WAES system in my Golf IV ATD. Currently, I'm only using it with water. My experiences so far have been: I haven't noticed any significant increase in performance. Everyone has probably experienced that after a long highway drive (full throttle), the car doesn't pull as well and gets very hot. With the WAES system, you don't have that problem; the car pulls consistently well, whether it's the first time you give it full throttle after warming up or after driving 40 km on the highway. However, I would be interested to know why methanol or ethanol (alcohol) can cause an increase in performance. If desired, I can gladly provide more information!

So...,
I'm mainly familiar with the use of methanol or ethanol in systems that spray a mist onto the engine compartment from the outside.
It is clear that diluted Methernol (which is better than Ethernol) evaporates faster, and therefore removes heat from the surface much more quickly, thus cooling it.
Similar to how nature causes living beings to sweat in order to lower their body temperature!

I'm not entirely sure whether this behavior also occurs with fuel injection, or whether it's because M/Ethernol also has a good energy content.
It definitely seems to be working!!!

Have you tried using rubbing alcohol yet?

If you can provide any further information, - please do .

Thank you.
Best regards,
Michael

Hello again!

Okay, as mentioned on the first page of this thread, distilled water doesn't seem to provide any noticeable performance improvement for me. I can only confirm the effect that the engine runs better after a period of stagnation (when using distilled water).
With approximately 50% alcohol content, I experience a noticeable increase in performance. (I realized this again today. I had run out of alcohol.) So, the TDI was performing unusually poorly (because I'm used to driving with alcohol).

Regards,

mild, gentle, soft, sweet