Frage zur Einspritzdüse/Düsenstock | Posts 16+

Did you check the opening pressure of the old nozzles before removing them? I would be interested in seeing the values sometime.

No, I didn't measure the opening pressure with the old ones.
When I took the X-ray image, everything became clear.
However, I can imagine that the opening pressure might be increased because my old fuel injection pump had started to leak. The nozzles also looked quite clogged (possibly from the biodiesel).

I ended up deciding to put in the same type of filters that were already in there, specifically Bosch filters.
'The cost is more than double, but what I've heard about nozzles from other manufacturers (Eastern Bloc, China, Turkey, Bosch-USA) is that they don't work well with our fuel.'
(Apparently, Turkish people are still allowed, but it seems there might be problems with that in the winter. - hearsay)

Tip: Replacing the entire injector unit, including the needle lift solenoid, is no longer a good option for me (at 200,000 km).
I need to save up for it first.

I also replaced the injectors on my ALH a few weeks ago. However, I failed to check the X-ray image beforehand.

I followed a guide from another forum where it was stated that you don't need to adjust the opening pressure.
Since the engine was having problems after the replacement, I went back to my John Deere dealer and we checked the injectors together.
The result was that the opening pressure was between 170 bar and 210 bar, so it was definitely below 220 bar.
Then I spent 3.5 hours adjusting the jets with a trainee until the readings were correct.

So much for the idea that you don't need to adjust the opening pressure on a TDI!

While the problem ultimately turned out to be the fuel injector, I'm still glad I checked the nozzles again.

I only asked my question because I wanted to know if what happened to me was an isolated incident, or if now hundreds of people are driving cars with different opening pressures.

Best regards,

So much for the topic that you don't need to adjust the opening pressure on a TDI!
I should probably do that too, as my car's driving behavior has deteriorated again (when starting), although it's nowhere near as bad as it was before the fuel injector replacement.
I'm now going to tap the needle valve. I should still check the opening pressure beforehand, thank you for the reminder.
For me, it's 190 bar - AFN, 81 kW.
It might be better to always replace the entire nozzle assembly, as it is only offered as an original replacement part, which eliminates the need to adjust the opening pressure. It's all very sensitive, you know.

Quote:

Perhaps it's better to always replace the entire nozzle block, as it's only offered as an original replacement part, then you won't have to worry about adjusting the opening pressure.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, otherwise there wouldn't be any calibration plates and nozzles. There is no wear and tear on the nozzle holder itself.

Best regards,

patrick8549 wrote:

There is no wear and tear on the nozzle holder itself.

I wouldn't just say that. I doubt that the springs in there are still working as well after 400,000 kilometers as they did after 200,000 kilometers or 0 kilometers. While the wear and tear is very minimal, I wouldn't describe it as "none."

A completely overhauled injector (with a new injector nozzle and correctly adjusted pressure) will have a slightly worse performance than a brand new one, but will still perform significantly better than an injector with a mileage of 200,000 km. There's definitely a difference.

patrick8549 wrote:

Quote: I replaced the nozzles, of course, all of them, and they were all broken (only 1-3 holes per nozzle were open). Everything worked perfectly, and the engine is running smoothly and has full power again, especially when starting. Did you check the opening pressure of the old nozzles before removing them? I would be interested in seeing the values. What kind of nozzles did you install?

Here's my belated conclusion, specifically regarding a standard, unmodified ALH engine.

"During the nozzle test, the spray pattern was like new, with a very fine atomization, but the holding pressure was borderline, and there was slight dripping."

Mileage: 200,000 km
Condition: Like new, according to Bosch.
Quantity comparison: Deviation of 0.05-0.10 mg/h, according to Bosch service, perfectly clean.

Opening pressure (new): 220...230 bar.
Wear limit: 200 bar.
Is: 210 bar.


"Therefore, it's surprisingly good for a vehicle with 200,000 km on the odometer. However, the slight dripping causes soot problems during startup, and the slightly premature injection, due to a somewhat lower injection pressure, tends to result in a slightly rougher engine running."


"I add a bottle of Liqui Moly fuel injector cleaner to the car's fuel tank every 15,000 km, although I personally think it's a waste of money, as it hasn't made a noticeable or lasting difference for me."


Greetings.
Georg.

Concluding remarks:

After 200,000 kilometers of operation, the springs in the injector nozzle are so worn that even adjusting the opening pressure will no longer improve performance. The repeated heating and cooling cycles have damaged the feathers to the point where their entire structure is compromised, and while some improvement might be possible, it's not really repairable.
Therefore, I have now added four nozzle extensions (including...). They had to buy nozzles and, as a result, spent 400 euros more than they intended.
Therefore, after extensive testing, I can only recommend:
When it comes to tuning, simply changing the injectors is naturally the more cost-effective option.
In all other cases, it is recommended to replace the entire nozzle assembly.
(Bosch, for a reason, only offers the injector rail as a spare part.)

bastl wrote:

Concluding remarks: After 200,000 kilometers of operation, the springs in the injector nozzle are so worn that even adjusting the opening pressure will no longer improve performance. The repeated heating and cooling cycles have damaged the feathers to the point where their entire structure is compromised, and while some improvement might be possible, it's not really repairable. Therefore, I have now added four nozzle extensions (including...). They had to buy nozzles and, as a result, spent 400 euros more than they intended. Therefore, after extensive testing, I can only recommend: When it comes to tuning, simply changing the injectors is naturally the more cost-effective option. In all other cases, it is recommended to replace the entire nozzle assembly. (Bosch, for a reason, only offers the injector spider as a replacement part)

Sorry, what nonsense. Therefore, a thumbs down from me. Besides, my name is Rainer.

I can't find any of my customers associated with that email address.

Either you've installed some cheap, low-quality Chinese parts, or the nozzles weren't properly adjusted or installed incorrectly.

In my shop, which is part of this forum, we offer fuel injectors, including installation and adjustment, for the injector holder combinations that are delivered.

Understandable and with a functional guarantee. You can stand next to me and see that a) the required values/pressures are being achieved, b) the idle speed control of the EDC confirms this, and c) your car will already consume less fuel on the way home.

-> It's annoying and, in a way, rude and disrespectful to ask for help with something unrelated in the forum of a company that specializes in nozzle repairs.

Your problem, your fault.

Best regards, Rainer.

ditto.

I agree with Rainer... as you can see from my values above, even with over 200,000 km on the odometer, my injectors were still perfectly fine in terms of opening pressure.

And Bosch does indeed offer repair kits, which then consist only of the nozzle tip... or how else would a competent Bosch service center, that doesn't want to replace the entire injector assembly, repair an injector?

Huh, what's going on now????

Logically, one could also check the spring, but it's questionable which Bosch service would actually do that.

It's nonsense to say that constant temperature fluctuations will break the spring. The microstructure of spring steel only changes at temperatures of 200°C or higher, depending on the type of steel. Your nozzle rods will never get that hot.
It is, of course, true that the springs lose their tension over time.

bastl wrote:

Hey, what's this all about????

This refers to the statements mentioned here.

bastl wrote:

After a mileage of 200,000 km, the springs in the nozzle holder are so worn that even adjusting the opening pressure will no longer help.

"That's simply nonsense that you're spreading here. Of course, the feathers will wear down somewhat, but that can be compensated for by adjusting them, roughly up to 300,000-400,000 kilometers – Rainer will certainly agree with me on that." And if you look at my example:

200,000 km, almost new opening pressure - no adjustment needed. Where are my pens?


Furthermore, it's not "hää" but "excuse me" or "what did you say"... you can definitely express yourself in a more polite way, even online.

Oh, sorry, that was probably phrased a bit carelessly.
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that with this level of usage, the probability is quite high.
Or if nozzle problems generally occur with high mileage.

"Sorry for reviving this thread, but I don't want to create a new post unnecessarily. I need a new needle lift adjuster, and I'd like to switch to 0.216 nozzles on my 1z engine, manufactured in 1994. So, do I need nozzles and a nozzle holder with a 0.216 size, as well as a needle lift adjuster that is compatible with 0.216 nozzles?" Or would 0.216mm nozzles and 3 new nozzles be sufficient, and could someone who has the right tools and expertise install and adjust them in my nozzle holders?

Thewolf wrote:

Sorry if I'm reviving an old thread, but I don't want to unnecessarily start a new post. I need a new needle lift adjuster, and I'd like to switch to 0.216 nozzles on my 1z engine, year 1994. So, do I need nozzles and a nozzle holder with a 0.216 size, and also a needle lift adjuster that is compatible with 0.216 nozzles? Or is it sufficient to use the 0.216 nozzle

and 3 new nozzles, and then have someone who has the tools and the knowledge install and adjust them in my nozzle holders?
I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly. The only important thing is that you end up with four properly calibrated 0.216 nozzles.

You're probably going to buy a new NHG (presumably a type of investment product) with a peak of 0.216 anyway.
Whether you buy three 0.216 tips and professionally install them into your existing nozzle bodies, or you buy three complete 0.216 nozzle assemblies, it shouldn't make a difference in the final result.

Greetings.
Guste.