Was steckt hinter VAG-Economy-Bremsscheiben? | Posts 16+

TRW brake discs are also protected. However, instead of being silver-coated, they are painted matte black. This is indicated by the "BP" (black painted) designation after the part number. For example, DF 4277 BP.
Barum brand brake discs are uncoated.
Herth and Buss (only vehicles from East Asia) windshields are mostly also coated.
Now it's Klaus's turn, if he wants to.

Half a year ago, I bought brake discs from Herth + Buss for a Honda EG9. The brake discs were somehow painted, and the friction surfaces were also coated. After installation, we used the reverse braking method to slightly wear them down. Eventually, the rest of the coating simply wore off. We didn't notice any significant effects on the braking performance. The brake pads that were also ordered were installed with these discs. The brake drums for the rear axle, which were also ordered, were not treated with any protective coating. For aesthetic reasons, they were painted with "wheel silver" before assembly.

I am not aware of who actually manufactured the discs, pads, and drums.

Okay, I have ATE brake discs. I have no rust problems on the front, but it's catastrophic on the rear. I actually drive similarly to Ulf, without using the brakes. I've been using the handbrake when possible, especially going downhill. This gradually eliminates the rust on the rear. However, the rear axle is severely corroded on the very outer edges because nothing brakes there...

Whether the windows are coated with wax or something else, I don't think that says anything about how likely the car is to rust. I always park next to a 2009 320d, and even after it rains, all the windows are perfectly clear.

I don't understand why your front disc brakes are rusting. Are you really not using them very much?
After 50,000 km, I still have about 6mm of brake pad material left, which clearly indicates that I don't brake much. In the rear brakes of a 1.9 TDI with a PQ24 platform, this is quite common because the electronic brake force distribution is part of the ABS system, and it's just as problematic as the ABS itself. Normally, with a vehicle that isn't fully loaded, very little braking force is applied to the rear.

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What could I expect from the new "Economy" windshields from the original VAG range, given this driving profile? The JZW615301G "Eco" model has a list price of €110, while the "normal" 8N0615301A model costs €151.

"This is just a move by VW to offer cheaper replacement parts for older vehicles, so that not all customers go to independent workshops. The quality is no different – and if anything, it's worse than "original equipment" parts."

Regarding the material recommendation:
There are products like Jurid Nonox and Zimmermann Coat Z that are specifically designed to be "rust-resistant."
The ATE Powerdisc is said to have good self-cleaning properties, which should also help prevent corrosion.

Unfortunately, the Jurid Nonox brake pads are not available for your Cupra. Instead, you could consider Zimmermann or Powerdisc pads. Both together cost approximately €220 on the aftermarket.


Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"Hello"

FabiaCombiTDI wrote:

So, I have ATE brake rotors.

There are no rust problems on the front ones, but they are catastrophic on the rear ones. }
For the ATE disc brake 24.109-0123.1, which is used on the rear axle of both the Fabia and the Ibiza BUK, it is sometimes worthwhile to examine it more closely before installation (marked in red).
The ATE Powerdisc 24.0309-0123.1 does not originate from there. For that reason alone, this type is the wrong choice.
If there's still some time left (before switching to summer tires), I'd also be happy to take a picture of a Lucas-TRW brake system right after winter. There's absolutely no rust on it.

Thank you, Steffen!
I love this forum .
Do you know what markings are on the original replacement parts? Because ATE shouldn't be worse than OEM.

Best regards,

FabiaCombiTDI wrote:

I don't understand why your front axle brakes are rusting. Do you hardly ever brake?

Somewhat yes: when I used to drive the ASZ Polo, its 288mm OEM front disc brakes didn't look very clean either.
Since they had enough time after the car swap to adopt my partner's driving style (who brakes more than I do, but still significantly less than the average careless driver), they are now as clean as most cars you see.

With the Ibiza, the long period it spent at the dealership likely played a role (when I bought it, it had a fresh technical inspection, and new front brake discs were installed during that process, which didn't bother me), plus my very gentle driving style.
In September 2011, during the HU (technical inspection), the inspector apparently wrote "only minor" defects in the report regarding the corroded stainless steel window panes, noting that he already considers a full-stop braking maneuver at maximum speed with those panes to be borderline. Therefore, I want to replace them with new ones during the seasonal tire change.
Currently, I'm also leaning towards ATE because the 312 disc is listed as having a coating with part numbers 24.0125-0123.1 or 24.0325-0123.1.
http://www.ate.de/generator/www/com/de/ate/ate/themen/10_produkte/10_verschleissteile/10_bremsscheiben/productinfo_bremsscheiben_de,tabNr=2.html

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Regarding the recommendation of the material: There are products like Jurid Nonox and Zimmermann Coat Z that are specifically designed to be "rust-resistant." The ATE Powerdisc is said to have good self-cleaning properties, which should also help prevent corrosion. For your Cupra, the Jurid Nonox is not available. You can get Zimmermann or Powerdisc. Both together cost approximately €220 on the open market.

And at least also ATE, as mentioned above - my local garage uses ATE if they are not OEM parts.
I could get VAG standard windshields for €220, and the Eco version for €159. Unfortunately, the warehouse employee doesn't clearly know to what extent they are also anti-corrosion coated .

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If there's still some time left (before switching to summer tires), I'd also be happy to take a picture of a Lucas-TRW brake directly after winter.

There's no rust on it. }Yes, please!
VA or HA? Are you familiar with the corresponding driving or braking profile?

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Currently, I am also leaning towards ATE because the 312 disc is listed as having a coating with part numbers 24.0125-0123.1 or 24.0325-0123.1:

Again, this gray coating has NOTHING to do with rust resistance.
This is just protective coating applied before installation. The storage areas and transport routes are neither dehumidified nor heated. Without this protection, they would already be rusted during installation. In the past, there was a layer of grease on them, which is why brake cleaner was used to remove it beforehand. This step is no longer necessary with the coating. Once the coating is removed, they will rust just like any other metal part.

The material it's made of is crucial. As Steffen mentioned, the country of manufacture and other factors likely play a significant role.

However, if you're experiencing extreme rust problems on the front of your car, you should consider adjusting your driving style. This is because you'll have significantly longer braking distances if you need to perform an emergency stop. I've noticed this when the car has been exposed to salt and water for extended periods, especially over the weekend.
often, it's clear that a few braking maneuvers are needed to restore the braking performance.

Even though brakes generally consume fuel, I've driven entire tanks with a fuel consumption of only 3.6 liters (not on the highway), but my brakes didn't have any rust problems (on the front). You're ultimately more expensive because, in my opinion, every rotor will eventually rust if you don't use them. A set of brake pads lasts me about 100,000 km.

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"Hello"

FabiaCombiTDI wrote:

Do you know what markings are on the original replacement parts? Because ATE shouldn't be worse than OEM. Regards

The car manufacturer doesn't produce its own windshields; it buys them from suppliers, including Conti-Teves (ATE). Therefore, they are unlikely to be of poor quality.
However, other manufacturers are now also original equipment suppliers. Ferodo, for example.
You just don't know in advance which brand they will sell you as an "original part."
@Ulf
VA and HA, if you want. I have TRW brakes all around in both cars. Everything is black painted, except for the rear brakes on the Sharan. They weren't available in that color back then. The driving profile is also known. I'll write about it in April when I put on the summer tires and upload the pictures.

FabiaCombiTDI wrote:

This is just protective coating applied before assembly. The storage areas and transport routes are neither dehumidified nor heated. Without this protection, they would already be rusted during installation. In the past, there was a layer of grease on them, which is why brake cleaner was used to remove it beforehand. This step is no longer necessary with the coating. Once the coating is removed, they will rust just like any other metal part.

No, no, the coating remains in place. Both on the hub and on the outer surfaces. Only where the brake pad makes contact will it be worn away. On the remaining areas, it also protects against rust after installation.

Well, it doesn't work at all with my VA ATE brakes that have a coating, which is why I interpreted it that way...

Steffen W wrote:

@Ulf VA and HA, if you want. . .

Yes, I want.

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Again, this gray coating has NOTHING to do with the tendency to rust.

I know that the friction surfaces become susceptible to rust as soon as the coating is removed.

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Previously, there was a layer of fat on it... This is eliminated with the coating. Once that is gone,

they rust just like any other. :But for now, I'm hoping that the rust won't spread from the unrestrained outer or inner edges into the friction surfaces...

FabiaCombiTDI wrote:

EDIT / read this too late:

Well, it doesn't work at all with my VA ATE brakes with coating, that's why my interpretation...} Do these things rust just like the old rotors, after the rust protection grease wears off?
Or how else should it be understood?

I carefully removed overgrown rust areas with the smallest hammer available. The last time was on NK Heavy parts from teileklaus, specifically part number 206. However, I did it not for aesthetic reasons, but simply because it produced chirping to hissing noises. Since this occurred intermittently, it eventually became annoying.

What it does is only mitigate the effect of the cause... since I'm still driving the first set of brake pads, I can't say anything about mine. However, I've already installed the "coated" ATE rotors (not from the PRC) multiple times. I don't often see every car, but in one T5 that has now run about 30,000 km with those rotors, neither the wheel hub is superficially rusted, nor is the edge noticeably rusty... I find this type of coating significantly better than the oiled .


but like so many things in life, it's subjective.

Well, I've only done this for the first time after over 130,000 kilometers of mileage on these brake discs. So, it was worth the effort, and it gave me the assurance that the discs and pads are still not at the end of their lifespan.

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....I find this type of coating significantly better than the greased icon_smile.gif.

Yes, that's a great thing.

In 2007, I cleaned and degreased the rear windows (which were uncoated) of my vehicle and treated them all around with zinc-based paint (spray can). Now, after 70,000 km of use, they are starting to rust significantly. However, it's nothing compared to what it would be like if they hadn't been treated.

Loose wheel hubs, especially those with unsecured discs on the front axle, are a serious problem. If these discs, for example, come loose during a wheel change, it's almost guaranteed to cause trouble later on.

Hello,

I've been using ATE PowerDisc brake rotors on the front for 85,000 km, for about 3-4 years. I also had these so-called rotors on the rear. However, the rear rotors didn't have any grooves, and I'm not sure to what extent/whether the PowerDisc rotors differ from standard ATE rotors at all. In any case, the rear rotors wore out unevenly and quickly from the edge, which may have been due to the ATE brake pads. /viewtopic.php?t=11446&start=120 They were replaced with standard ATE rotors, which still look great today and have remained evenly bedded.
The grooves on the front discs, which are intended to prevent water and dirt from accumulating on the brake surface, have almost disappeared, which means that a replacement will also be necessary for the front discs in April. Visually, the brake pads appear to be suitable for twice the current mileage, but of course, they will eventually wear out.
The front ATE Powerdisc brake rotors are also completely rusted on the inside/edges. Since the grooves in the Powerdisc rotors cause a "rubbing"/noise when they are new and functioning properly, I'm leaning towards (again) ATE standard rotors. The grooves also get clogged with dirt very quickly, making them less effective than, for example, drilled holes, so this argument is also quickly dismissed.

Ultimately, I don't think that any kind of coating, no matter what it's made of, can significantly contribute to the longer lifespan of brake pads. With hard braking, the fat, paint, or similar materials will burn off eventually. With a gentler braking style, it might rust more slowly, but a coating can't prevent the technically much more important deterioration of the friction surfaces themselves (because that wear starts immediately after the first use). Therefore, it's more of an aesthetic issue.

I would also prefer brake calipers and disc rims that are resistant to rust, which can only be achieved with the appropriate materials.

haithamina