Ölzunahme - kleine Studie | Posts 32+

Hi,
The log repeatedly shows the value 128 for the solenoid valve status during operation. Question - Is this normal for a workplace?
To better understand the suspected "diesel additive" in the oil, you could observe how the fuel consumption compares during the frequent active regeneration phases, compared to when regeneration is not running. I would like to estimate an upper limit for the amount of diesel fuel injected based on the excess fuel consumption and the duration of the regeneration process.
Thank you.
Herbert.

Quote:

hkss wrote the following: In short, I can't change my personality or character. You're not the only one. Please check/log the coolant temperature and, if possible, the engine oil temperature. The coolant regulators installed in these vehicles tend to wear out with age. Possibly, a new coolant regulator might maintain the temperature at a higher level, which would also affect the oil temperature.

Then, exchange the vehicles with each other.

And don't forget to record the exhaust temperatures.

Herbert wrote:

Hi, The log repeatedly shows the value 128 for the solenoid valve status during operation. Question - Is this normal for a workplace? To better understand the suspected "diesel additive" in the oil, you could observe how the fuel consumption compares during the frequent active regeneration phases, compared to when regeneration is not running. I would like to estimate an upper limit for the amount of diesel fuel injected based on the excess fuel consumption and the duration of the regeneration process. Thank you. Herbert

I think the error code 128 always appeared when the accelerator was released.

I have logs for 68-69-73 and 68-70-73. Do you see anything you want to know about?

The increased fuel consumption during active regeneration is actually too...
completely negligible / vanishingly small - or so it seems - BECAUSE:

Based on my limited knowledge and observations so far, it seems that...
The active regeneration process involves heating the DPF by injecting an increased amount of fuel (after top dead center).
This is just for a short period, 1 or 2 minutes, and only at the beginning to initiate the regeneration process or to warm up the DPF (I believe it's MWB channel 68 or 69).
However, this additional fuel injection is reduced again if, for example, you have to stop at a traffic light during regeneration, or if you briefly turn off the engine during regeneration. As soon as you pull away from a traffic light or restart the engine, the DPF is brought back up to its operating temperature, and additionally, more fuel is injected for a short period.

Based on this - my - assumption and my long and detailed observation of the channels in the MWB units 68/69/70/73, I have been meticulously noting for years when the next active regeneration cycle will occur, and I have always planned these "burn-in" runs for long distances.
For me, this is simpler and less problematic than one might currently imagine.
For me, in 99% of cases, it's the norm that I can initiate the regeneration process and then stop it completely with just a single additional injection for the duration of the DPF heating phase, which takes about 1-2 minutes.
I had been hoping and imagining that, without a doubt, this would be good for the engine.
to perform a good job and to complete the regeneration process each time with the least possible amount of additional injection and a single DPF heating phase.

I think that once the DPF reaches a certain temperature and starts to glow, ...
This eliminates the need for any additional fuel injection to complete the "glow process" or initial combustion, unless you need to stop at a traffic light or briefly turn off the engine. After such a stop, of course...
to bring the DPF back up to its operating temperature with additional fuel.
The worst thing for such a process would probably be a start-stop-and-go situation.
It's hard to imagine the amount of heat buildup and stress the DPF has to endure.
If you were to simply turn off the engine during a regeneration process in the height of summer.

Hello.
If the increased consumption is negligible, where does the 0.4 liters increase in oil level per 4000 km come from? Theoretically, this equates to 0.04 liters per active regeneration cycle every 400 km. With a duration of 5 minutes, this should be visible as approximately 0.5 liters per hour in the instantaneous consumption, and especially the amount that is burned, which must be noticeably higher.
hg
Herbert.

Herbert wrote:

Hello, If the increased consumption is negligible, where does the 0.4 liters increase in oil level per 4000 km come from? Theoretically, this equates to 0.04 liters per active regeneration cycle every 400 km. With a duration of 5 minutes, this should be visible as approximately 0.5 liters per hour in the instantaneous consumption, and especially the amount that is burned, which must be noticeably higher. hg Herbert

Very well estimated, Herbert! If I had to put it in numbers, based on what I observe in the MFA, I would say that what you're saying is correct.
But do you think that all of the extra consumption will end up being attributed to the oil?
I believe and hope that only a tiny fraction of this excess fuel makes its way past the pistons and into the oil. With my 4400 km, that was roughly just...
5 regeneration processes - summarized and explained in a single, comprehensive text.
I believe the amount of oil that seeps past the piston rings and into the crankcase depends on the driving style. If the engine is running in city traffic or during heavy acceleration, etc.
"If it regenerates, it will definitely push a lot more air past the pistons than it does for me when I'm driving on the highway in 5th gear at 90 km/h and 2800 rpm (estimated) until the regeneration cycle ends."

Yes - You're right - I'm also wondering where that 0.4 liter increase comes from.
I read that you can check the sealing rings of the hydraulic power units (HPUs) when you are testing the tandem pump. I'm not sure how reliably these results indicate defective seals.
However, the screwing work on the PD elements must be carried out with extreme care.
I wouldn't want to leave my car with a workshop and strangers who would just be seeing it pass by. If the extended warranty applies, I will probably...
have no other choice. But these considerations are probably still premature.

There's also an interesting article available on the ADAC website:

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/reparatur-pflege-und-wartung/motor-und-oel/oelverduennung/default.aspx


Addition: I made a mistake above - at 4400 km, there were 11 regeneration processes, not 5.

Hi,
I wouldn't start looking for defects in the PDEs just yet.
It would be interesting to get information about how much additional fuel is injected for the active regeneration process in that small study. This should be readable from the data in the MSG's log. I don't know if the consumer display or the injection quantities in MWB1 show that information; I don't have a vehicle to test it on.
That would also tell us how plausible the quantities are in the "oil amplification" process.
hg
Herbert.

Herbert wrote:

Hi, I wouldn't start looking for defects in the PDEs just yet. It would be interesting to get information about how much additional fuel is injected for the active regeneration process in that small study. This should be readable from the data in the MSG's log. I don't know if the consumer display or the injection quantities in MWB1 show that information; I don't have a vehicle to test it on. That would also tell us how plausible the quantities are in the "oil amplification" process. hg Herbert

On the sealing rings of the positive displacement elements - not on the positive displacement elements themselves.

I'll see what I can log.
It might still take another 2 days.

Here are the temperature logs from MWB:
029 - Oil temperature / Oil level threshold / Wear index / Soot index.
062 - Coolant temperature - engine outlet / Coolant temperature - radiator outlet / Ambient temperature / Intake manifold temperature.
067 - Temperature before turbocharger / Temperature inside particulate filter / Pressure difference across particulate filter / Offset of differential pressure.

The journey was a typical, standard commute home from work.
Driving on the Autobahn at speeds between 90 km/h and 115 km/h.

I DON'T know how hot engine oil needs to get in order to remove water and fuel contaminants - but...

...roughly, I observed that the oil temperature only reaches 90/91 degrees Celsius when driving faster than 110 km/h.
So, it should be somewhere between 110 km/h and 120 km/h if the oil needs to reach 90 degrees Celsius.
As I said, I have no idea whether the engine oil should be above 90 degrees.

Based on the data I've collected today, I can already confidently say that...
"When I drive my usual route on country roads, my engine oil temperature typically hovers around 87 degrees."
However, I will also occasionally log temperature measurements using the same measurement and weighing devices.

Just before getting home, channel 029 broke down at the (only) traffic light - I then re-transmitted the rest of the signal on channel 2. File logged.
I wanted to see if the engine oil would get warmer as it passed through the residential area, but it didn't.
The engine oil temperature is most significantly affected by the engine's RPM.

And the regeneration trip is shown below - unfortunately, I had to go to the store twice today and accumulate kilometers .
I had a 27% state of charge and the regeneration started on time, with the display showing "380km since last regeneration."

"However, the data regarding the battery's state of charge (27%) and the distance since the last regeneration cycle (380km) was NOT logged, because I've experienced this issue so many times before."
I don't find it very informative to just see when the 380 goes back to 0 or how the 27% is counted down.

You can see if the regeneration process is running in the MWB 069 channel, channel 4, status 4: Regeneration.
When the regeneration process is running, it displays "00000001", and when the regeneration is completely finished, it displays "00000000".

I once found the MWB 071 interesting because it shows the amount of fuel injected after the initial injection.
As soon as values are displayed here, the regeneration process begins, in accordance with status 4, regeneration 00000001.

Therefore, in the next logging session, I will also refrain from using MWB 069 and will only use MWB 071 – the post-injection amount – as an indicator of regeneration.
There are other "Meinungsbildungsbeiträge" (contributions to opinion formation) that interest me more, and unfortunately, you can only log 3 of them.
Observing only 0000000 and 00000001 in the MWB 069 range isn't really meaningful.

Okay, as announced, here are the losses from MWB.
067 - Temperature before turbocharger / Temperature inside particulate filter / Pressure difference across particulate filter / Offset of pressure difference.
069 - Status 1 Regeneration / Binary value / Binary value / Status 4 Regeneration.
071 - Engine speed / Post-injection quantity / Start of injection (post-injection) / Injection duration (post-injection).

It should be noted that the (regenerative) driving experience on the highway tonight wasn't quite as...
It went smoothly, as always. I had to improvise with gear stage S a few times to achieve acceptable speeds for the regeneration process.
So, the RPM values in the log weren't necessarily set by the regeneration program – I manually adjusted them.

@Herbert
Hello Herbert, the MWB 071 should provide everything you need to measure the additional fuel being consumed.
Well, assuming one can handle the data in the log file – unfortunately, I'm not skilled enough to use the time and quantity factors to identify or calculate the total amount.

hkss wrote:

For the temperature of the engine oil, the engine speed is the most decisive factor.

Hello Hubertus, no, that's not the case. The load on the motor is, in fact, more decisive.
@ Autoservice: My Caddy cost 15 stones, and that's mine! Furthermore, there will be (wheelchair) space issues; I need that space because of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, unless a miracle happens.
@ Hubertus: I'm not necessarily able to make sense of the logs, which are too cluttered for me.
If I'm interpreting the recorded coolant temperature correctly, you're not even reaching 90°C.
As I mentioned, a new coolant regulator would be a good thing and wouldn't cost a fortune.
The achieved oil temperatures indicate a fuel-efficient and economical driving style. That's not enough to eliminate fuel components.

For me, as a beginner, using a VC-Scope is not easy (either).
Here are the VC-Scope settings (maximum/minimum) for my log from MWB:

MWB 13 -
Channel 1 - Fuel injection system, cylinder 1 - VC-Scope Max: 1, Min: -3.
Channel 2 - Fuel injection - Cylinder 2 - VC-Scope Max: 1 Min: -4
Channel 3 - Fuel injection system, cylinder 3 - VC-Scope Max: 1, Min: -3.
Channel 4 - Fuel injection system, cylinder 3 - VC-Scope: Max: 1, Min: -1.

MWB 18 -
Channel 1 - Solenoid valve status, Cylinder 1 - VC-Scope: Max: 129, Min: -1.
Channel 2 - Solenoid Valve Status, Cylinder 2 - VC-Scope: Max: 131, Min: -3.
Channel 3 - Solenoid valve status, Cylinder 3 - VC-Scope: Max: 133, Min: -5.
Channel 4 - Solenoid valve status, Cylinder 4 - VC-Scope: Max:135, Min:-7.

MWB 23 -
Channel 1 - Timing deviation. Cylinder 1 - VC-Scope Max: 3 Min: -94.
Channel 2 - Timing deviation. Cylinder 2 - VC-Scope Max: 3 Min: -94.
Channel 3 - Timing deviation. Cylinder 3 - VC-Scope Max: 3 Min: -94.
Channel 4 - Timing deviation. Cylinder 4 - VC-Scope Max: 3 Min: -94.

Okay, here are the VC-Scope settings for the regeneration log.

MWB 067 -
Channel 1 - Temperature before turbocharger - VC-Scope Max:900 Min:0
Channel 2 - Temperature in the particulate filter - VC-Scope Max:900 Min:0
Channel 3 - Differential pressure particulate filter - VC-Scope Max:130 Min:5
Channel 4 - Offset Differential Pressure - VC-Scope Max:1 Min:0

MWB 069 -
Channel 1 - Status 1 - Regeneration - VC-Scope Max: 10100000 Min: 0
Channel 2 - Binary value - VC-Scope - Remove hook.
Channel 3 - Binary value - VC-Scope - Remove hook.
Channel 4 - Status 4 - Regeneration - VC-Scope Max:1 Min:0

MWB 071 -
Channel 1 - Engine Speed - VC-Scope Max: 3100 Min: 500
Channel 2 - Post-injection volume - VC-Scope Max: 30 Min-4
Channel 3 - Start of boost (post-injection) - VC-Scope Max: 90 minutes, -40 degrees.
Channel 4 - Injection duration (post-injection) - VC-Scope Max: 38 minutes, -6.

Quote:

For me, as a beginner, using a VC-Scope is also not easy (or hasn't been)

Then you just use KDataScope, because you don't have to configure anything.

Best regards, Rainer.

Hi,
A post-injection dose of up to 30 mg per injection is quite a lot. With an average of 20 mg over 2 minutes and 2500/min, that's 200g, or roughly 0.2 liters per regeneration , and that's not insignificant compared to normal operation.
hg
Herbert.

Herbert wrote:

Hi, A post-injection dose of up to 30 mg per injection is quite a lot. With an average of 20 mg over 2 minutes and 2500/min, that's 200g, or roughly 0.2 liters per regeneration , and that's not insignificant compared to normal operation. hg Herbert

Hello Herbert, the average of all fuel injection values is 31.88mg.
I think it's not useful to calculate an average from all the numbers in the CSV file when it comes to the mg values.
The average speed during the injection process is 2103 RPM.
It seems to me that the duration is 10 minutes.

At 4464 km, I had 11 regeneration cycles - which is roughly every 380 km.
(I made a mistake in a previous post and accidentally wrote 5 instead of 11).

The question that is likely impossible to definitively answer is how much of it makes its way into the engine oil (given my driving style, which involves driving for the regeneration period) and how much of it the engine can eventually evaporate.

Triggering the regeneration process every 380 km, regardless of the load factor, is, in my personal experience, quite simply the most ridiculous thing imaginable.

Of course, I understand that it makes sense, in other cases – with different driver profiles – to initiate the regeneration process based on a mileage threshold or a load coefficient.
Since VW cannot know who is driving the car and how it is being used, both the mileage and the load limit were programmed together.
Because if a DPF fails or breaks due to a lack of regeneration cycles, Volkswagen would likely be responsible for the costs.
"In that case, you probably just accept the fact that the oil is diluted without saying anything." "Almost no one notices it, and the effects are long-term consequences that Volkswagen won't have to deal with."
I suppose I'll just have to live with that fact now.