Ölzunahme - kleine Studie | Posts 32+

Hi,
The log repeatedly shows the value 128 for the magnetic valve status during operation. Question: Is this normal during operation?
To better understand the suspected "diesel additive" in the oil, you could observe how the fuel consumption compares during frequent active regeneration cycles compared to when regeneration is not running. I would like to estimate an upper limit for the amount of diesel being introduced based on the increased fuel consumption and the duration of the regeneration process.
Thank you.
Herbert.

Quote:

hkss wrote the following: In short, I can't change my personality or character. You're not the only one. Please check/log the coolant temperature and, if possible, the engine oil temperature. The coolant regulators installed here tend to degrade with age. A new coolant regulator might maintain the temperature at a higher level, which would also affect the oil temperature.

Then, exchange the vehicles with each other.

And don't forget to record the exhaust temperatures.

Herbert wrote:

Hi, The log repeatedly shows the value 128 for the magnetic valve status during operation. Question: Is this normal during operation? To better understand the suspected "diesel additive" in the oil, you could observe the fuel consumption during the frequent active regeneration phases and compare it to the consumption without ongoing regeneration. I would like to estimate an upper limit for the amount of diesel being introduced based on the increased fuel consumption and the duration of the regeneration process. Thank you. Herbert

I think the error code 128 always appeared when the thrust was being cut off.

68-69-73 + 68-70-73. I have logs for many of these. Do you want to know something specific?

The increased fuel consumption during active regeneration is actually too high for me.
completely negligible / insignificant, or so it seems - BECAUSE:

Based on my limited knowledge and observations so far, it seems that...
The active regeneration process involves heating the DPF by injecting an increased amount of fuel (after top dead center).
This is just for a short period, 1 or 2 minutes, and only at the beginning to initiate the regeneration process or to warm up the DPF (I believe it's MWB channel 68 or 69).
However, this additional fuel injection is reversed if, for example, you have to stop at a traffic light during the regeneration process, or if you briefly turn off the engine during regeneration. As soon as you drive away from the traffic light or restart the engine, the DPF is brought back up to its cleaning temperature, and additional fuel is injected for a short period.

Based on this - my - assumption and my long and careful observation of the channels in the MWB series 68/69/70/73, I have for years been meticulously noting when the next active regeneration cycle will occur, and I have always planned these "burn-in" runs for long distances.
For me, this is simpler and less problematic than one might currently imagine.
In my experience, 99% of the time, I can initiate the regeneration process and then stop it completely with just a single additional injection of fuel, which lasts for about 1-2 minutes during the DPF heating phase.
I had been hoping and imagining that I would definitely be working on the engine here.
to achieve something good and to complete the regeneration process each time with the least possible amount of additional injection and a single DPF heating phase.

I think that once the DPF reaches a certain temperature and starts to glow, ...
"...so that no additional fuel injection is required to complete the "glow-plug" process – unless you have to stop at a traffic light or briefly turn off the engine. After such a stop, it is of course necessary to..."
to bring the DPF back up to its operating temperature with additional fuel.
The worst thing for such a process would probably be a start-stop-and-go situation.
Don't even think about the heat buildup and stress that the DPF has to endure.
If you were to simply turn off the engine during a regeneration process in the height of summer.

Hello.
If the additional consumption is negligible, where does the 0.4-liter increase in oil level per 4000 km come from? Theoretically, this means that with regeneration occurring every 400 km, it's 0.04 liters per active regeneration cycle. With a duration of 5 minutes, this should be visible as approximately 0.5 liters per hour in the instantaneous consumption, and even more so the amount that is actually burned, which must be noticeably higher.
hg
Herbert.

Herbert wrote:

Hello there, If the increased consumption is negligible, where does the 0.4-liter increase in oil level per 4000 km come from? Theoretically, this means that with regeneration occurring every 400 km, it's 0.04 liters per active regeneration cycle. With a duration of 5 minutes, this should be visible as approximately 0.5 liters per hour in the instantaneous consumption, and even more so the amount that is burned, which must be noticeably higher. hg Herbert

Very well estimated, Herbert! - If I had to put it in numbers, based on what I observe in the MFA, I would say that what you're saying is correct.
But do you think that all of the extra consumption ends up being used in oil?
I believe and hope that only a tiny fraction of this excess fuel makes its way past the pistons and into the oil. Based on my 4400 km of driving, it was roughly only...
5 regeneration processes - described in the most comprehensive and concise way possible.
"The amount of oil that leaks past the piston rings into the crankcase, I believe, also depends on the driving style. If the engine is used in city traffic or during heavy acceleration, etc."
"When it regenerates, it will definitely force a lot more air past the pistons than it does for me when I'm driving on the highway in 5th gear at 90 km/h and 2800 rpm (estimated) until the regeneration is complete."

Yes - you're right - I'm also wondering where that 0.4 liter increase comes from.
I read that you can check the sealing rings of the hydraulic power unit (HPU) components when you're testing the tandem pump. However, I'm not sure how reliable those results are in indicating defective sealing rings.
However, the screwing work on the PD elements must be carried out with extreme care.
I wouldn't want to leave my car with the workshop and strangers who might just ignore it. If the extended warranty applies, I suppose...
There is no other option to be considered. But these considerations are probably still premature.

There's also an interesting article available on the ADAC website:

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/reparatur-pflege-und-wartung/motor-und-oel/oelverduennung/default.aspx


P.S.: I made a mistake above - at 4400 km, there were 11 regeneration cycles, not 5.

Hi,
I wouldn't start looking for defects in the PDEs just yet.
It would be interesting to get information about how much additional fuel is injected for the active regeneration process in that small study. This should be readable from the data in the MSG's log. I don't know if the fuel consumption display or the injection quantities in MWB1 show this information; I don't have a vehicle to test it on.
That would also tell us how plausible the quantities are in the "oil multiplication" process.
hg
Herbert.

Herbert wrote:

Hi, I wouldn't start looking for defects in the PDEs just yet. It would be interesting to get information about how much additional fuel is injected for the active regeneration process in that small study. This should be readable from the data in the MSG's log. I don't know if the fuel consumption display or the injection quantities in MWB1 show this information; I don't have a vehicle to test it on. That would also tell us how plausible the quantities are in the "oil multiplication" process. hg Herbert

On the seals of the positive displacement elements - not on the positive displacement elements themselves.

I'll see what I can log.
It might still take 2 more days.

Here are the temperature logs from MWB:
029 - Oil temperature / Oil level threshold / Wear index / Soot index.
062 - Coolant temperature - engine outlet / Coolant temperature - radiator outlet / Ambient temperature / Intake manifold temperature.
067 - Temperature before turbocharger / Temperature inside particulate filter / Pressure difference across particulate filter / Offset of pressure difference.

The measurement was a typical, standard commute home from work.
Driving on the Autobahn at speeds between 90 km/h and 115 km/h.

I DON'T know how hot engine oil needs to get in order to remove water and fuel contaminants - but...

...roughly, I observed that the oil temperature only reaches 90/91 degrees Celsius when driving faster than 110 km/h.
So, it should be somewhere between 110 km/h and 120 km/h if the oil needs to reach 90 degrees Celsius.
As I said, I have no idea whether the engine oil should be above 90 degrees.

Based on the data I've collected today, I can already confidently say that...
"When I drive my usual route on country roads, my engine oil temperature typically hovers around 87 degrees."
However, I will also occasionally log temperature measurements using the same measurement and control devices.

Kurz vor zuhause brach dann der Kanal 029 an der (einzigen) Ampel ab - ich hab dann nochmal neu den Rest im 2. File logged.
I wanted to see if the engine oil would get warmer as it passed through the residential area, but it didn't.
The engine oil temperature is most significantly affected by the engine's RPM.

And here is the record of my "regeneration" trip, which unfortunately required me to drive to the store twice today and accumulate kilometers .
I had a battery load efficiency of 27%, and the regeneration process occurred as scheduled, with the display showing "380km since last regeneration."

"However, the data regarding the state of charge (SOC) and the distance since the last regeneration (380km) are not being logged, which is something that has happened before."
I don't find it very informative to just see when the 380 goes back to 0 or how the 27% is counted down.

You can see if the regeneration process is running in the MWB 069 channel, channel 4, status 4: Regeneration.
When the regeneration process is running, it displays "00000001", and when the regeneration is completely finished, it displays "00000000".

I once found the MWB 071 interesting because it shows the amount of fuel injected after the initial injection.
As soon as values are displayed here, the regeneration process begins - in accordance with status 4, regeneration 00000001.

Therefore, in the next logging session, I will also refrain from using MWB 069 and will only use MWB 071 – the post-injection amount – as an indicator of regeneration.
There are other "Meinungsbildungsbeiträge" (opinion-forming contributions) that I find more interesting, and unfortunately, you can only log 3 of them.
Observing only 0000000 and 00000001 in the MWB 069 range isn't really meaningful.

Okay, as announced, here's the loss from MWB.
067 - Temperature before turbocharger / Temperature inside particulate filter / Pressure difference across particulate filter / Offset of pressure difference.
069 - Status 1 Regeneration / Binary value / Binary value / Status 4 Regeneration.
071 - Engine speed / Post-injection quantity / Start of injection (post-injection) / Injection duration (post-injection).

It should be noted that the (regeneration/recharging) trip on the highway tonight won't be as...
It worked flawlessly, as usual. I had to improvise a few times with the gear selector in "S" to get acceptable RPMs for the regeneration.
So, the RPM values in the log weren't necessarily set by the regeneration program; I had to adjust them manually.

@Herbert
Hello Herbert, the MWB 071 should provide everything you need to measure the additional fuel being consumed.
Well, assuming one can handle the data in the log file, I'm afraid I'm not skilled enough to use the time and quantity factors to determine or calculate the total amount.

hkss wrote:

For the temperature of the engine oil, the engine speed is the most decisive factor.

Hello Hubertus, no, that's not the case. Rather, the load on the engine is the deciding factor.
@ Autoservice: My Caddy cost 15 stones, and that's mine! Furthermore, there will be (wheelchair) space problems; I need that space because of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, unless a miracle happens.
@ Hubertus: I'm not necessarily able to understand much from the logs you sent, as they seem to contain too much information for me.
If I'm interpreting the recorded coolant temperature correctly, you're not even reaching 90°C.
As I mentioned, a new coolant regulator would be a good thing and wouldn't cost a fortune.
The achieved oil temperatures indicate a fuel-efficient and economical driving style. However, this is not enough to eliminate fuel consumption.

For me, as a beginner, using a VC-Scope is not easy (either).
Here are the VC-Scope settings (maximum/minimum) for my log from MWB:

MWB 13 -
Channel 1 - Fuel injection system, cylinder 1 - VC-Scope Max: 1, Min: -3.
Channel 2 - Fuel injection - Cylinder 2 - VC-Scope Max: 1 Min: -4.
Channel 3 - Fuel injection system, cylinder 3 - VC-Scope Max: 1, Min: -3.
Channel 4 - Fuel injection system, cylinder 3 - VC-Scope: Max: 1, Min: -1.

MWB 18 -
Channel 1 - Solenoid valve status, Cylinder 1 - VC-Scope: Max: 129, Min: -1.
Channel 2 - Solenoid valve status, Cylinder 2 - VC-Scope: Max: 131, Min: -3.
Channel 3 - Solenoid valve status, Cylinder 3 - VC-Scope: Max: 133, Min: -5.
Channel 4 - Solenoid valve status, Cylinder 4 - VC-Scope: Max: 135, Min: -7.

MWB 23 -
Channel 1 - Timing deviation. Cylinder 1 - VC-Scope Max: 3 Min: -94.
Channel 2 - Timing deviation. Cylinder 2 - Valve Control Scope. Max: 3. Min: -94.
Channel 3 - Timing deviation. Cylinder 3 - VC-Scope Max: 3 Min: -94.
Channel 4 - Timing deviation. Cylinder 4 - VC-Scope Max: 3 Min: -94.

Okay, here are the VC-Scope settings for the regeneration log.

MWB 067 -
Channel 1 - Temperature before turbocharger - VC-Scope Max:900 Min:0.
Channel 2 - Temperature in the particulate filter - VC-Scope: Max 900, Min 0.
Channel 3 - Differential pressure particulate filter - VC-Scope Max:130 Min:5
Channel 4 - Offset Differential Pressure - VC-Scope Max:1 Min:0

MWB 069 -
Channel 1 - Status 1 - Regeneration - VC-Scope Max: 10100000 Min: 0
Channel 2 - Binary value - VC-Scope - Remove hook.
Channel 3 - Binary value - VC-Scope - Remove checkmark.
Channel 4 - Status 4 - Regeneration - VC-Scope Max:1 Min:0

MWB 071 -
Channel 1 - Engine Speed - VC-Scope Max: 3100 Min: 500
Channel 2 - Post-injection volume - VC-Scope Max: 30 Min-4.
Channel 3 - Start of boost (post-injection) - VC-Scope Max: 90 minutes, -40 degrees.
Channel 4 - Injection duration (post-injection) - VC-Scope Max: 38 minutes, -6.

Quote:

For me, as a beginner, using a VC-Scope is not easy (either)

.
Then just use KDataScope; you don't have to configure anything.

Best regards, Rainer.

Hi,
After injection, up to 30 mg/dose is already quite a lot. With an average of 20 mg over 2 minutes and 2500/minute, that's 200 grams, or roughly 0.2 liters per regeneration , and that's not insignificant compared to normal operation.
hg
Herbert.

Herbert wrote:

Hi, After injection, up to 30 mg/dose is already quite a lot. With an average of 20 mg over 2 minutes and 2500/minute, that's 200 grams, or roughly 0.2 liters per regeneration , and that's not insignificant compared to normal operation. hg Herbert

Hello Herbert, the average of all injection quantity values is 31.88mg.
I think it's not useful to calculate an average from all the numbers in the CSV file when it comes to the mg values.
The average speed during the injection process is 2103 RPM.
It seems to me that the duration is 10 minutes.

At 4464 km, I had 11 regeneration cycles - that's roughly every 380 km.
(I made a mistake in a previous post and accidentally wrote 5 instead of 11).

The question that is likely impossible to definitively answer is how much of it ends up in the engine oil (given my driving style, which involves a lot of regeneration cycles) and how much of it the engine can eventually expel through evaporation.

Triggering the regeneration process every 380 km, regardless of the load factor, is, in my personal experience, quite simply the most ridiculous thing imaginable.

Of course, I understand that it makes sense to initiate the regeneration process based on a mileage threshold or a load factor, especially for different driver profiles.
Since VW cannot know who is driving the car and how they are driving it, both the mileage and the load limit were programmed together.
Because if a DPF becomes clogged or breaks due to a lack of regeneration cycles, Volkswagen would likely be responsible for the cost.
"In that case, it's probably better to quietly accept the fact that the oil is diluted. Hardly anyone will notice, and the consequences will be long-term effects that Volkswagen won't have to deal with."
I suppose I'll just have to live with that fact now.