(Starthilfe-)Kabel löten und/oder crimpen? | Posts 32+

Hi everyone.

Quote:

In an ideal crimp, there is no space. Therefore, the solder is only just on top, nothing more. Eine Verbesserung der Kontakte erreichst du damit nicht. zumindest nicht nennenswert.

If that's the case, I'm giving up .

I had assumed that the contact area was small, and that a full-surface contact would significantly improve it. This would have allowed us to accept the slightly higher transition resistance.

So, that leaves us with the disadvantage of potential corrosion.

Also Verlöten und Versiegeln ?

m;

Hey everyone!

Bertil wrote:

... Zn is zinc!!!! I'm therefore going to assume it's Sn (tin) . ...

That was MY mistake, not Dr. Ulf's .

Okay, before we add another 10 pages to this: If you absolutely can't resist, go ahead and solder it - that's it.
ABär ned jammern hinterher, ok?

Fakt ist und bleibt, daß in einer gasdichten (!!!) Crimpung keine Luft oder Wasser eindringen kann, somit gibt's auch logischer Weise keine Korrosion; löten sinnlos außer das Kabel mechanisch bruchanfälliger zu machen (s. Berti(l)'s contribution!).
Ist/war die Crimpung schon schlecht, ist sie durch nichts als durch eine neue -optimale- Crimpung zu ersetzen. Lot ist und bleibt hier schlichtweg Pfusch, weil es aus zigfach o. g. Gründen keine Crimpung ersetzen kann und auch nicht darf (s. VDE)!
And yes, HerBärt is also right about more than just "Sn" here. The coefficients of thermal expansion are different, and this eventually leads to "cold solder joints," hairline cracks, renewed corrosion, heat generation, fire, and a lot of trouble.

Best regards from Munich!

Doll.

You really scared me just now.
I need to troubleshoot the spark plug wiring harness on the BLS because a connector is faulty.

I wanted to solder on the new "antler" piece... but it's probably some kind of devilish thing.

How can I possibly achieve that using common household items?
I don't have a 10 GN Crimp Pliers .

m;

Hi Martin!

Do you go to an electrician (or a specialist for switchgear construction), do you have it done, duration 10 seconds, do you give a tip

Best regards from Munich!

Quote:

Are you going to the electrician

?

I don't know anyone who has a workbench where I could put the G5.
Because one end of the cable harness is attached to the car.

Let me see if I can find someone...

Okay, I understand.
Okay, then you should go to an electrician *g*.

Okay, if it comes to that, look up a company that builds switchboards in the Yellow Pages, go there, and an apprentice will definitely be able to go outside to the car during their lunch break.

Best regards from Munich!

Regarding soldering stranded wires: In addition to corrosion in aggressive environments, the wire becomes brittle up to the point where the solder ends. At that point, the individual strands can then break off under vibration stress. For stationary applications, wires can be soldered, but no mechanical alternating loads should be present.

Therefore, it is hardly reliable in cars. The second problem is that the solder flows under pressure. A tightened wire connector will become loose after some time and can lead to fires. For this reason, soldering is prohibited in the VDE standard for stranded wire connections that are created using screw pressure.

A rarely used set of jumper cables in the garage can last for decades. However, with constant use, they will likely fail relatively quickly.

Best regards.
Christian

"In emergencies, I would also solder wires in the car. The stress from vibrations can be minimized by using heat-shrink tubing, and if you then bundle and coil the repaired wire with the other wires, it will stay in place."

chris11 wrote:

Regarding soldering stranded wires again. Besides corrosion in aggressive environments, the wire becomes hardened up to the point where the solder stops.

I am familiar with this effect, but it can be avoided when resoldering if you only solder at the very end of the strand - see the appendix.

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There, the individual strands break under vibrational stress.

What is the fundamental difference between hard-soft transitions?
a) where the tinning ends in soldered strands.
b) where the wire strand emerges from the crimp connector?
Anders gefragt: Ist die Stelle b) vibrationsbeständiger als a)? If so, why?

For information on the potential long-term durability of solder joints, please refer to the image on the left in the attachment.
For information on the electrical effectiveness of crimped OEM automotive cable connections, please refer to the image on the right in the attachment.
The longitudinal resistance of the approximately 8-year-old battery cable, including both terminals (ring terminal already resoldered), as measured with test currents of approximately 20A, was approximately EDIT 0.2 mOhm. /EDIT
By resoldering the terminal, the Rcrimp value decreased significantly, leaving approximately EDIT 0.11 mOhm /EDIT remaining.

"@Dieselmartin - VW sold me a repair kit for the glow plug connectors for the Audi, which includes connectors with cables attached. It also came with insulated crimp connectors, which were to be used to crimp the old and new wires together. According to VW's parts department, this method is approved. The insulation of the crimp connectors (with adhesive inside) is heat-shrinkable and creates a tight seal after crimping."It has been holding up for about two years.
Sure, here's the translation:

"Best regards."
Herbert.

ulf wrote:

... I'm familiar with this effect, but it can be avoided when soldering by only soldering at the very end of the wire - see the attachment. ...

I thought we were talking about actual soldering points and not adhesive points.


What I can see in the picture is definitely not soldered.
That's excessively "glued" together. There's more solder on top than there is wire inside.

You certainly have nothing to worry about in that case...

Bertil wrote:

What I can see in the picture is anything but soldered. Das ist maximal "geklebt". Da ist mehr Lötzinn oben drauf wie in der Litze.

Reicht aber trotzdem aus, um den Crimpstellenwiderstand signifikant zu reduzieren . . . und im 8-Jahres-Rahmen auch dauerhaft, denn sonst hätte der Polo ja schon abbrennen oder wenigstens mal liegenbleiben müssen:

DieselBär30x wrote:

Und ja, HerBärt hat hier auch nicht nur mit "Sn" Recht. Die Ausdehnungskoeffizienten sind unterschiedlich und so kommt's auch bei perfekter Lötung irgendwann zu "kalten Lötstellen", Haarrissen, erneuter Korrosion, Hitzeentwicklung, Brand, ...großes Gejammer.

Oder sind 8 Jahre bei einem meist 2 x täglich bewegten Fahrzeug noch nicht lang genug für "irgendwann"?


By the way, all other high-current power cables connecting the chassis, engine block, battery, alternator, and starter have also been re-soldered in a similar manner over the past ~8 years, as can be seen in the attached image.
However, I didn't take any before-and-after measurements with those individuals.

Hello!

I'd also like to declare myself a fan of soldering techniques.
because I always make new battery cables for my cars, tractors, and small trucks for repair purposes.
And this has been the case for over 20 years, and it has always worked perfectly since then. And nothing has broken, burned down, or collapsed.

You just have to do it the right way, which is something I learned during my apprenticeship in East Germany.

It seems that, for example, a thick battery cable would first need to be tinned in a soldering bath.
and then you crimp the connector/lug or terminal onto it.
The connection will then be soldered again using a large soldering iron, with a power of around 500-600 watts.
"This will be neat, it's completely soldered, not glued. And if you're careful, the cable insulation won't burn."

I also have a soldering station now, which I bought at a flea market for 5 euros.
and it was completely full of solder!

Hello everyone!

Steffen G wrote:

... So that, for example, a thick battery cable is first tinned in a soldering bath, und dann den Anschluss / Öse oder Polklemme aufquetscht ...

...and that is EXACTLY the worst thing you can possibly do.
The other way around, it wouldn't have been entirely wrong, in the style of Dr. Ulf .

Speaking of Ulf: We're going in circles, which is why I wrote above: Those who can't resist, should go ahead and solder, and that's that...
It has been sufficiently and, from multiple perspectives, logically explained why it is *disgusting*.
With a 16/25mm² cable, you only reach the maximum current load at the moment of starting, which *could* lead to dangerous overheating. Those few amps during normal operation (which you don't have in your case, since you don't have air conditioning, heated seats, etc. *lol*) won't cause any problems even if the cable is reduced to half its cross-sectional area.
I strongly suspect that the crimps were perfectly fine before, and that your "tinkering/crafting" impulse just kicked in again, and now you want to base your arguments on this "tinkering/crafting" impulse. It has nothing to do with expertise anymore *nerve* .

Best regards from Munich!

DieselBär30x wrote:

It has been sufficiently and from multiple sources -logically explainable- demonstrated why something is *pfui*.

Strangely, my practical measurement data after the "pfui" treatment are better than before.

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I strongly suspect that the crimps were perfectly fine beforehand... and that your "tinkering/crafting" impulse kicked in again, and now you want to base your arguments on this "tinkering/crafting" impulse.

In the meantime, I have also resoldered the main cable connector on the Ibiza. The pre-measurement with ~20A showed a crimping voltage drop of...
"Only 0.2 mV. For the Polo, it was 1 mV under the same load, which means a 5-times higher on-resistance compared to the Polo."

A voltage drop of 1 mV at 20 amps results in approximately 12 mV at 250 amps (assumed starter current), which corresponds to approximately 3 watts of power loss in the terminal crimp connection.
There's nothing inherently dangerous regarding the heat dissipation cross-sections, but by soldering on a pole terminal, the losses at that point decrease to approximately 0.3 watts.

War die werksmßige Polo-Crimpung also vorher völlig OK, obwohl ihr Widerstand ca. 5-fach höher lag als die Werks-Crimpung des Ibiza-Massekabels, wobei über beide Kabel jeweils ein 1,9l PD-TDI gestartet wird?

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It has absolutely nothing to do with expertise anymore *nerv*

Where does the ultimate expertise lie in this topic, if not in measured values for transition resistances and practical long-term experiences?

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A voltage drop of 1 mV at 20 amps results in approximately 12 mV at 250 amps (assumed starter current), which corresponds to approximately 3 watts of power loss in the terminal crimp connection. There's nothing inherently dangerous regarding the heat dissipation cross-sections, but by soldering on a pole terminal, the losses at that point decrease to approximately 0.3 watts.

Honestly, what do I care about these 3 watts at 260A? There are much better things to do than (illegally) messing around with soldering . This weekend, I celebrated my 2-year-old godchild's 2nd birthday and had a wonderful time with her . By the way, this 2-year-old can speak and sign, will be potty-trained soon, and is much further ahead than the average child, which makes me incredibly proud! That instantly makes my turbocharger damage sadness disappear.