Einspritzpumpen und Tuning (größere Förderkolben) | Posts 64+

Yes, you're right about the 90 horsepower. But that wasn't the original topic of discussion.
The discussion was about the injectors in the 110hp engine, and it was said that they can provide a measured (maximum!) increase of 8 horsepower, but usually it's less.

Hey everyone,
Actually, I was almost going to say that this whole discussion about nozzles is really annoying, but I would find it in bad taste if I wrote that. So, to put it another way:

Could it be that both the proponents of turbo tuning and the opponents (who argue that it's useless without further modifications) are right? The VP-TDI is a highly complex hydraulic system with largely unknown wear characteristics.

With a new engine (new ESP), I can imagine that larger injectors wouldn't make a difference, and I know of a case with a nearly new AFN engine where it didn't help.
(that's why I haven't bought any 216s yet).

However, I also believe that ULF had engines that were actually beneficial. If a few atomic layers are polished off the control piston of the ESP (Electronic Stability Program) and the needle valves of the DHK (Direct Injection System), the leakage current increases rapidly under pressure, which means: the fuel does not reach the cylinders, at least not during this injection event.
Then, the defective cylinder head gaskets are replaced with new ones that leak less, while simultaneously reducing the maximum [pressure/temperature/etc.]. Hydraulic pressure, so that the ESP can pump with less loss.
For me, it's clear that this will make a difference! However, it's partially something that was already lost.

Finally, it should be mentioned that there are repeated attempts to prove oneself right here, instead of reflecting on why other people have had completely different experiences with what appears to be the same system.
As far as I'm concerned: If I'm right, that's great, but I don't learn anything from it!

hello

Okay, all this theoretical discussion is interesting, but practical experience would be better. There might be different opinions again (like with the large nozzles), but it would then be clear whether the electronics completely compensate for everything or if there's still room for adjustment. I'm assuming we're talking about standard chips here.

"Are there people in this forum who have installed (or had installed) 11-element injectors without making any significant other modifications for extreme tuning? It would be great if people could briefly mention which base engine they have and whether they used a modified chip or the stock one, etc."
That would definitely move things forward significantly.

Best regards, Christian.

Stefan wrote:

is funny. You're all technical-minded, like the blind talking about colors.

To be honest, you don't need to be an expert in engines to know that you can't realistically get 170 horsepower out of a 90 horsepower 1Z engine without any modifications like a turbocharger.

There's nothing behind it other than empty rhetoric and fabricated values.

@tagessuppe

If you can't read, you should avoid making such clever remarks.

No one has claimed anything like that.
The last part of the discussion focused solely on the turbocharger swap and the performance difference between the 90 and 110 horsepower TDI engines.

If you take just 10 minutes, let the entire (!!!) post be read to you. Then you'll understand the context and connections.

Hello everyone,

I just compared the areas of the nozzle holes with those of the various... ESP Pistons Compared. (See attached list)

Result:

If the combination of 0.158 with a 11mm piston works (which is the worst-case scenario), then even the combination of 0.184/12mm won't be a problem (in terms of stress/load!).

Assuming a constant injection pressure (which is only possible in theory!), the last column shows the expected performance increase with the original MS software and with a modified chip.
(Of course, with sufficient boost pressure. As can be seen from the 274 hp of the 14-cylinder engine, these are calculated theoretical values! The further you are from the standard power output, the more inaccurate these values will be.)

For me, this suggests: Instead of just getting a chip, maybe it would be a good idea to have the 11mm piston installed at the same time.
It doesn't seem necessary to use any other nozzles for this. It should work without any problems with the 0.205mm nozzles, or even with the 0.184mm nozzles. You might not achieve the calculated performance increase, but it should still provide a noticeable improvement.

Assuming that the pump piston is one of the main wear parts of my ESP and is likely responsible for a non-compensable, gradual loss of performance, my next step would be to have an 11-size piston installed, while leaving the nozzles in place.

Therefore, one more question: Does anyone have the part numbers for the 11th/12th pistons? Can someone get that for me?
(Piston refers to the piston and pump head, and anything else that is needed.)

Hi,

I have something else from practical experience...

I put the standard 110 injectors back into my A6 the day before yesterday. My friend now has the 216 injectors that I had in mine for about 10,000 km, and he's using them in his Seat Ibiza 6K ASV. Well, and it really is a loss of power. The top speed has decreased by approximately 8 km/h, not to mention the acceleration (now, at least, there's no more vibration between 2 and 3 km/h).

The Ibiza has been performing much better lately. Unfortunately, we don't have any throughput times for either of the vehicles yet.

Just for your information.

Regards,
arne

I'm completely lost.

Does the Ibiza perform better or worse with the 216 tires?

My 216 model, which I had for about 10,000 km, is now with a friend in his Seat Ibiza 6K ASV.
...
The Ibiza has been doing much better since then.


hm - is that phrased poorly? Well, at least I think the nozzles made him go faster.

arne

hello

Has anyone here installed a 11mm piston in a human-tuned engine?
"Are there any reports of this not working? If the factory already uses 11mm pistons with 0.158 injectors in the same pump that normally uses 10mm pistons with 0.184 injectors, then you can probably rule out wear and tear as an issue. I hope it's true that the pumps are identical."

Best regards, Christian.