Leistungsmessung

Quote:

Quote: Ich meine laut diagramm vom tuner hatte der golf serie schon knappe 165 ps, aber für den rest muss ja was getan worden sein!? As far as I know, ALR (presumably referring to something specific) tends to push things down rather than up! Therefore, it's unlikely that you'll be able to measure 165 horsepower in the standard version if everything is done correctly. If I calculate the additional power of approximately 18% (178 hp compared to 150 hp) specified by SLS based on the baseline measurement of 165 hp, I get 194.7 hp . And so the circle is complete, and everything fits together again. Boost angle, boost pressure, and increased power output. At least, that's what the tuner claims and would like to achieve. However, this feature is not available in IMA. The test stand results alone are impressive enough to brag about in both cases. Regarding the Bosch testing equipment: Rainer K wrote: Wenn was anderes als ~160-165PS rauskommt, kannste den Schrieb als Toilettenpapier benutzen. teuers Toilettenpapier.... Best regards, Jochen

.



I can't really agree with that! My ARL 4 Motion, manufactured in 2002, already had a good 160 horsepower from the factory. After tuning, it produced approximately 186 horsepower and 380 Nm of torque. I also have an additional control unit installed in my car that measures performance and is constantly accessible. These values are confirmed by that as well! Most TDI engines tend to have a tendency to produce more power rather than less, provided everything is in good condition.
Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"MFG" stands for "Mit freundlichen Grüßen," which translates to "Sincerely" or "Best regards" in English. It is a common way to end a formal letter or email.

pa-mm6 wrote:

I also have an additional control unit installed in my vehicle that measures performance and is constantly accessible.

These values are confirmed here as well! } This is a bit off-topic, but I'm interested in this device (website link?), and what data it uses to calculate the power output.

Hi.

The data comes directly via CAN from the engine control unit. Ask Rainer; he should know what is meant. I don't want to post any more here, because the developer only designed the device for private use .

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"MFG" stands for "Mit freundlichen Grüßen," which translates to "Sincerely" or "Best regards" in English. It is a common way to end a formal letter or email.

pa-mm6 wrote:

After the tuning, it produces approximately 186 horsepower and 380 Nm of torque. I also have an additional control unit installed in my vehicle that measures the performance and is constantly accessible. These values are confirmed by this unit as well! Bitte gib mir den deutschen Text, den du übersetzt haben möchtest. Data comes directly via CAN from the engine control unit... I don't want to post any more here.

No one has disputed that it is possible to increase the power of the ARL engine to 180-190 hp.
If you were to log the maximum power output (MWB 1) at full load from 1400 to 4500 rpm, you would likely obtain longer pumping duration values compared to slg60 .

Hi.


Oops, now there's a new thread out of this too .

"No, I just meant that because you wrote that the ARL usually tends to scatter downwards by default."

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"MFG" stands for "Mit freundlichen Grüßen," which translates to "Sincerely" or "Best regards" in English. It is a common way to end a formal letter or email.

pa-mm6 wrote:

Oops, now there's a new thread as well.

Yes, another moderator probably split it off from the ARL boost pressure thread.

Quote:

No, I just meant that, because you wrote that the ARL usually tends to go down by default. That wasn't me (it was Jochen), but never mind }.

Ich kann mich dem nicht so anschließen ! Mein ARL 4 Motion Bj 02 hatte auch bei der ersten Leistungsmessung schon gute 160 PS Serie!

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but even our user 'bavarian,' who is very knowledgeable about engine development at VAG , wrote the following regarding this point:

In my opinion, serial variations usually only lead to deviations of more than +/- 10% of Pmax in the rarest of cases. However, it is an open secret that, for example, the 96kW units tend to vary more upwards, while the 110kW PDs tend to vary more downwards.

Reading in the following thread:
Okay, I'm ready. Please provide the German text you want me to translate into English.

Perhaps you were lucky with your engine, or maybe your measurement wasn't entirely accurate.

The data comes directly via CAN from the engine control unit. Ask Rainer; he should know what is meant.
I also know the values that are transmitted via CAN, but there's no power reading among them. A single value is sent at a time. This value is calculated by MSG and corresponds to what the diagnostic system knows. Therefore, the accuracy is excellent, just like in the diagnostics.

The engine power can now only be calculated within the software of your Paltine device. You can now get an estimate of its exact value.

I don't want to post anything else here, as the developer only designed the device for private use.
Würde ich auch nicht, denn die Datenquelle der CAN-Beschreibug ist sehr dubios..
With re-engineering during maintenance, I definitely won't experience any issues with the Haldex .
Therefore, someone here is making money privately using confidential information.
It's therefore understandable that Rainer doesn't support this in his forum.

I'm sorry, but it's a fact.

Best regards, Jochen.

Hi.


Oops, now there's a new thread out of this too .

"No, I just meant that because you wrote that the ARL usually tends to scatter downwards by default."

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"MFG" stands for "Mit freundlichen Grüßen," which translates to "Sincerely" or "Best regards" in English. It is a common way to end a formal letter or email.

Yes, I knew it from what Bavarian answered and from what we ourselves were able to measure on the test bench.

Therefore, my statement (unfortunately) applies to the 'Groh' of ALR engines .
Best regards, Jochen.

ARL

Well, the performance was measured using K-Power back then. This matches my engine's specifications exactly. Of course, there's always some deviation, plus or minus, and no one is going to deny that.

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"MFG" stands for "Mit freundlichen Grüßen," which translates to "Sincerely" or "Best regards" in English. It is a common way to end a formal letter or email.

Regarding tuning, I've spoken to several tuners in recent weeks, and none of them have ever had an ARL engine that experienced downward scattering. It might be that there are experiences like this out there, but these two cases certainly suggest otherwise!

'I'm sorry if that sounds rude.'

'But when it comes to performance measurement on a test stand, you can't compare it to the capabilities of a motor testing rig; it's not even in the same league.'

You can find reasons for this partly in Ulf's descriptions of dynamometers and in the statements made by 'Bavarian' in the thread linked above.

If even the engine development team openly admits that their information is a closely guarded secret, how likely is it that they are wrong, and that an average tuner with their post-hoc corrected or calculated power measurements – which in 90% of cases may not be ideal due to factors like vehicle setup times, engine temperatures, ambient temperatures, etc. – has actually measured the power correctly?

Unfortunately, you'll have to accept that ASZ drivers are the lucky ones with their properly functioning engines and extra standard power, while ARL drivers are the 'unlucky' ones who should be happy if they even get the promised standard power.
Regarding the injection hardware, this doesn't seem to be a significant issue either...

Furthermore, I would like to subtly point out the gradual performance degradation that occurs in PD engines, as mentioned in the article above.
Therefore, the mileage of the PM motors is also a criterion for determining their output power.
Best regards, Jochen.

In my opinion, a dynamometer only makes sense if you want direct before-and-after confirmation, for example, with OBD tuning. As a reference measurement, it's relatively unsuitable, as mentioned earlier. However, even when taking before-and-after measurements, one must be aware of changing results due to, for example, rising temperatures in the entire engine environment, unless there is a highly efficient intake air cooling system to prevent this increase. Unfortunately, this aspect is often overlooked due to time pressure, although it could easily be prevented.
Question for the experts:

Is it actually true that the full performance of a chip tuning modification is only achieved after several hundred kilometers, or is it just a persistent rumor suggesting that the new or modified engine maps need time to become fully active?
So, wouldn't an immediate before-and-after measurement be rather pointless, then?

Best regards, Alex.

In my opinion, a dynamometer only makes sense if you want direct before-and-after confirmation, for example, with OBD tuning.

Right, to show the percentage increase in performance that the tuning achieves compared to the base configuration.
So, that's exactly the path that the DZM is taking.

Stimmt das eigentlich nun wirklich, das beim Chippen die volle Leistung erst nach einigen hundert km anliegt, oder ist das nur ein sich gut haltendes Gerücht das die neuen bzw geänderten Kennfelder Zeit brauchen um aktiv zu werden?

With the EDC15 system, it's definitely a myth.

With EDC16
I would say no as well.
However, for example, Alfa Romeo offers 'adaptive' engine maps.
Here, different turbocharger boost settings are used, which means that the response you get depends on how much you press the accelerator pedal. However, the characteristic maps themselves are not being changed, so 'adaptive' isn't really the right description for this behavior.
If I change these parameters by switching, the behavior will also switch accordingly.
However, IMA doesn't always convey this information correctly.

Therefore, IMA also includes something, but please confirm or refute this information regarding EDC16.

Best regards, Jochen.

I'm sorry to interrupt, but I have a few questions about the ASZ or ARL.

Is the source of the gradual performance loss known? Which components are wearing out in the process? Can this effect be mitigated by replacing certain components (e.g., PD elements)?

Context: I'm currently considering switching cars to either an Audi A3 1.6 TDI (130 hp, common rail injection, production up to 2002) or a VW Golf IV 1.9 TDI (150 hp, common rail injection). Due to financial constraints, the mileage should be no more than 125,000 km. Which of these cars would you recommend? I particularly value low weight and fuel consumption, combined with maximum driving pleasure (with the potential for subtle tuning).

I look forward to receiving many responses, and I apologize if I missed a thread where this topic has already been discussed.