TDI Engine for Paris Dakar: Specs & Info

Endless discussions about the maximum performance achievable from 1.9 TDI engines have already been held here.

VW states the power output for their rally car as 160 kW / 218 PS. Naturally, I'm curious about what modifications were made. Because durability is also a consideration in rally racing, and the engineers must have taken that into account.

Who knows what?

Best regards, caddy.

Hi!
According to my research, the chassis of these buggies are from the USA. They are equipped with 1.9 TDI engines producing 154 kW (210 hp). The cooling system, suspension, and bodywork were either modified or newly designed by Volkswagen Racing.

More information: www.jutta-kleinschmidt.de, www.vw-racing.de, and www.dakar.com.

Source: Volkswagen magazine, issue no. 4/2002, December.

Best regards, D.

Hi everyone,

I think that for the amount of money you have to invest in a motor to achieve that kind of performance, you can reasonably expect quite a bit.

Supposedly, a friend of mine drove over 80,000 km with a similar engine without any engine damage. I haven't checked it .
But who knows how many times he had to replace the head gasket, or how often he needed a new transmission, or what else he might have had to do.

One thing is certain! If you own such an engine and even drive it on our roads, you should probably be an employee of a tire company.

See you later.
Thomas.

Hello,

It seems the issue with durability has been resolved.
http://www.eurosport.de/home/pages/V3/L1/S239/sport_Lng1_Spo239.shtml

Regards,
Christian.

Thomas wrote:

Hi you two, I think that for the amount of money you have to invest in a motor to achieve that kind of performance, you can reasonably expect quite a bit. See you later. Thomas

Hi,

That's how one can be wrong. But who knows what might have been the reason.

See you later.
Thomas.

Hi,

or maybe not... just take a look at the VW Dakar pages.

The timing belt skipped a tooth, the valves are bent, but the rest of the engine survived. Replacing the cylinder head seems possible, so they're still in the running – currently in 11th place.

I wonder why they didn't use a solid chain instead. Timing belts tend to fail even in "normal" engines, and the fact that it might get louder as a result is probably completely irrelevant in this application. I can imagine that the mid-engine buggy with the TDI engine and a certainly not quiet racing gearbox is already incredibly loud anyway.

Best regards,

Jan.

Hi,

[Schadenfreude ON]
I actually think it's quite alright that things went wrong for them in such a prestigious competition.
What is the equivalent of 'Prestige' for VW, but for the average user and their wallet?
[Schadenfreude OFF]

I wonder why they don't have a solid chain in there; timing belts tend to fail even in 'normal' engines, and the fact that it might get louder is probably completely irrelevant in this application - I can imagine that the mid-engine buggy with the TDI and a certainly not quiet racing gearbox is already incredibly loud anyway.

Well, then it would essentially be an official admission that the timing belt system is not up to par. After all, a rally should also serve as advertising for the production vehicles.

Hello.
Wolfgang.

Jan6K wrote:

Timing belt skipped a tooth, valves bent

It's often due to things like this... I'm just saying, changing the timing belt every 75,000 km instead of 90,000 km.

Has anyone actually invented a conversion kit for a timing chain yet? I mean, there are water injection systems, exhaust manifolds, and all sorts of other things!

Greetings.
Thomas.

That would actually be a really meaningful modification!

I can already see the questions that will come up when we eventually have something like this: How many horsepower does it have? *grins*

Rainer: This machine probably didn't even come close to achieving such high mileage figures.

The question is whether VW has any valid reasons for not addressing this vulnerability in the racing TDI, because otherwise, hardly any part should be different from what we drive on the road, and the issue with the chain would surely be a relatively minor task for someone with the resources of VW Racing.

Are there any serious reasons to avoid using timing chains on a VE-TDI engine? Other manufacturers use them too...

Best regards,

Jan.

Rainer K. wrote:

Jan6K wrote: Timing belt jumped a tooth, valves bent . It's exactly these kinds of ridiculous constructions that cause problems... I'm just saying, a timing belt replacement every 75,000 km instead of 90,000 km...

Hi everyone,

Here's the official statement from VAG regarding the rally incident, in case they are pressured by anyone to say something different:

"The incident with the timing belt is clearly due to a manufacturing error under time pressure and allows no conclusions to be drawn about a general weakness in our engines."
Or something like that.

Or does anyone have a better statement from a marketing perspective?

Well, let's wait and see. It's probably the same with VW racing, that something has to happen before action is taken. Who knows, maybe this issue will be addressed in the future because of this incident?

I believe that with the G60 engines, a double timing belt was sometimes used because the supercharger would always explode if the timing belt broke. Surely, we could apply the same principle to our engines as well...

Greetings.
Thomas.

Hi,

For G60 engines, there were conversion kits available for the G-charger. These kits replaced the relatively narrow timing belt between the auxiliary shaft and the drive shaft of the charger's displacement unit with a wider one (the conversion kit also included wider gears for the two shafts).
However, this has nothing to do with the engine's timing belt. Furthermore, the supercharger is driven by a ribbed belt.

Best, Andy.

'The incident with the timing belt is clearly due to a manufacturing error under time pressure and allows no conclusions to be drawn about a general weakness in our engines.'
Or something like that.

Or does anyone have a better statement from a marketing perspective?


I'm currently considering whether to sue Volkswagen for damages. It's not exactly a case of 'muscle cramps from laughing'...

CU Gremlin.

Hi,

I'm currently considering whether to sue VW for damages. It's not exactly a case of 'muscle cramps from laughing'...



I think, Gremlin, you're going to have to sue Ulf...

P.S.:
One shouldn't be too harsh on VW and their timing belt designs (although I enjoy doing that sometimes). There have been and are many manufacturers who use/used this design. And at least now, the new TDIs use gear-based or chain-driven timing systems.
Even with timing chains, things weren't always great, as we could see with the VR6 engines in the past.
(Good heavens, now I'm starting such a fundamental discussion... )