Correct oil for AWX engine, year 2002, without DPF

I came across a discussion on the T5 forum about the correct oil for TDI engines without a DPF.

VW apparently realized after about 4 years that, for example, the R5-TDI engines produced before 2006 were incorrectly recommended to use oil that meets specification 507 00.
However, according to the latest information, this oil is only approved for DPF-equipped vehicles manufactured from 2006 onwards.

I'm now concerned that the oil I'm using in my Touran (2.0 TDI BKD with an aftermarket DPF) and my DPF-less 1.9 TDI AWX might be the wrong type (I'm using LL3 5W30 in both).

Who has the knowledge and can shed light on the current discussions?

The reason why LL3 oil cannot be used in the R5 TDI PD engine has nothing to do with the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter).
The HTHS value for shear stability is too low for this engine, as well as for the V10 TDI.

Since LL3 is suitable for DPFs due to its low ash content, you can use it for both the AWX and the BKD engines.

Thank you.

I already knew it wasn't because of the DPF, but because of the ash content.
While I couldn't view the oil analysis reports on the T5 forum due to not being registered, from what I understood there, it seems there were likely severe camshaft failures caused by the 'wrong' LL3 oil for the engine versions produced before 2006.

Could that perhaps also be an explanation for the camshaft damage observed in the 6-cylinder 2.5 TDI engines?

D. wrote:

Wouldn't that perhaps also be an explanation for the camshaft damage in the 6-cylinder 2.5 TDI?

No, because otherwise PD motors would have been even more severely affected.
The hardening process was simply not deep enough, or the material itself was too soft.

Tagessuppe wrote:

has nothing to do with the DPF. The HTHS value for shear stability is too low for this engine, as well as for the V10 TDI.

Absolutely correct. That exact sentence would be worth a point to me. Unfortunately, I am unable to...

Can the 507.00 oil be used in all PD engines, except for the R5 models produced before 2006 and the V10 engines?

I've read from some providers that it's also not compatible with 4-cylinder engines. PD engines that are not designed for long-life oil should not be filled with long-life oil.

If that's correct, what changes were made to the LL-capable engines that allow them to handle the 507.00 fuel?

The websites of oil companies also vary quite a bit.

Some sources claim that LL3 5W30 oil is suitable for my AWX engine (e.g., Castrol), while others explicitly state that it is not suitable (e.g., Mobil).

Let's not confuse things with shear stability.
The engine mentioned above is not compatible with oil meeting the 507.00 specification.
Unfortunately, you'll need to use a 5W-30 oil.
It is a full synthetic oil...
Not all oil manufacturers still offer the 506.01 specification.
I'm not sure if you're allowed to use an oil that meets the 505.01 specification for fixed-interval changes.
Conclusion: Stay away from 507.00.. even though it supposedly has "better shear stability."
I've been wondering for a long time why that is. You won't find the right answer anywhere. Your engine was likely still in the development phase when the new 506.01 oil was introduced, and don't ask me about the minor differences, or why the 507.00 oil doesn't have the same approval.
P.S.: Don't be misled by the opinion that 507.00 is 100% backward compatible.

Sorry, I'm getting confused. Your AWX engine isn't an R5, so that statement doesn't align with the LL2 or 506.01 specifications.
Here's the question: Do you have a long-life engine or one with fixed maintenance intervals? Let me know.

LL2? Who here is talking about LL2?

LL3 is backward compatible with LL and fixed-interval 4-cylinder engines.

@Steffen W: Please keep that in mind and evaluate me when Rainer promotes you to a professional thief.

scroll tdi wrote:

Unfortunately, you'll need to use a 5W-30 oil.

Is that even a thing? I only know it as 0w30, like Liqui Moly 1150, for example.

[quote="scroll tdi"]

scroll tdi wrote:

I'm not sure if you're allowed to use an oil that meets the 505.01 specification for fixed-interval changes.

Safe for AWX with short intervals.

tagessuppe wrote:

LL3 is backward compatible with LL and fixed-interval 4-cylinder engines.

Please, remember this, Scroll.

You can continue using the LL3 5w30 oil. As "Tagessuppe" mentioned, in your case, it includes the previously mentioned standards.

More information about this topic: /viewtopic.php?t=19913

@tagessuppe: I promise, I won't forget! Best regards to Vienna!

Sorry, I was mistaken about the 506.01; it should be a 0W-30.

Here's a guide again, which I would follow.

Certainly, the R5/R10 engines.
Before 2006: 506.00/506.01
after 2006: 507.00

Older TDI PD engines without pump injector (approximately up to the year of manufacture 2003).
Only oil meeting the 505.01 standard not 507.00
If you don't have a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter), I would definitely recommend using a 5W-40 oil that meets the 505.01 specification.
Nowadays, there are oils with the 505.01 specification available in a 5W-30 viscosity grade for use with DPFs.
Attention: Fuchs Öl is the only manufacturer of a 5W-40 oil approved for use with DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter).
They probably realized the situation and didn't use a 505.01 specification oil in a 5W-30 viscosity grade.
Fuchs TITAN GT1 SAE 5W-40 Approvals:
ACEA C3.
ACEA A3/B4
API SM/CF
BMW LONGLIFE-04
FORD M2C917-A
MB APPROVAL 229.31
PORSCHE RENAULT RN0700/RN0710 VW 502 00/505 00/
505 01
Be careful with premium brand 505.01 oils like Shell, Mobil, etc. in a 5W-30 viscosity.
They are out of 5W-40 oil (505.01).
So, if you don't have a DPF, you can switch to other oil manufacturers that still offer a 5W-40 oil with the 505.01 specification. Fuchs, Ravenol, Liqui Moly, etc.
For newer engines, I would definitely recommend using a VW 507.00 oil.

scroll tdi wrote:

Older TDI PD engines without Wiv (approximately up to the year of manufacture 2003). Only oil meeting the 505.01 standard not 507.00 not quite, because: 507.00 includes 505.01. Here it is again, in black and white:

/viewtopic.php?t=19999[url]
and here in detail.

[/url]/viewtopic.php?t=19986[url]

[/url]If you don't have a DPF, I would definitely use a 5w-40 oil that meets the 505.01 specification.
Nowadays, there are oils with the 505.01 specification available in a 5W-30 viscosity grade that are suitable for use with DPFs.

scroll tdi wrote:

And if the AWX also has a long-life interval? Then that won't work!

I won't let a brochure distract me here.
It may be true that Liqui Moly states this, and that the exception only applies to R5 and V10 engines.
Perhaps they forgot about the other exception?!
3- and 4-cylinder diesel engines without LongLife service (VW 505 01).
By the way, these engines were also produced until 2006. Therefore, the same problem that exists with the R5 and V10 models might be present.
You are sourcing your information from Liqui Moly.
I'm from Mobiloil. Shell is writing the same thing...

"Just to give you an idea, my authorized workshop has always used Esso oil, or now Mobil oil. (I haven't found any VW/Audi authorized workshops that use Liqui Moly oil either)."
According to the Mobil oil datasheet, I am not allowed to use oil with the specification 507.00.
http://www.mobil.com/Germany-German/Lubes/PDS/GLDEDEPVLMOMobil_1_ESP_Formula_5W-30.asp
SteffenW
I still think you're over-amplifying things here with the oil.
You're always trying to dig up my old posts and expose things you don't understand.
It's probably because you can't stand me.
This is a forum, and all viewpoints are allowed to be expressed.
How the other users here decide is not my problem.

And I'm just trying to bring people's attention to this...
Some oils that meet the VW Norm 507.00 standard have the following exceptions:
VW50700
"Pump-Düse" models R5/V10-TDI (VW 506 01) are excluded, as are 3- and 4-cylinder diesel engines that do not meet the LongLife service requirements (VW 505.01).

scroll tdi wrote:

I still think that you're overextending yourself here with the oil.

That's not quite right. However, this sentence by Thomas hits the nail on the head: "You're spreading dangerous misinformation combined with a resistance to being corrected."
It's not so much your own unwillingness to learn that bothers me, but rather that you keep repeating your incorrect opinion here.

Stop doing that because you're driving away readers who are looking for advice!

scroll tdi wrote:

You're always trying to dig up my old posts and expose things you don't understand. It's probably because you can't stand me.

I simply believe that your opinion regarding VAG oil specifications is incorrect, and I'm trying to explain that to you through objective discussion. I see it as a friendly debate. I have nothing against you personally, and I would appreciate it if you refrained from making any comments of that nature.

It seems others share that view as well.

Thomas K. wrote:

@scroll tdi You still don't get it. Of course, VW specifies the composition in the broadest sense, and specifically the requirements for the oil, not just the viscosity. The 504.00/507.00 specifications were based on the ACEA C3 standard, and Volkswagen added a few additional requirements on top of that. And now, for the last time. There is NO single oil that has been specifically homologated to the 505.01 standard in the viscosity grade of 5W-30. These are all oils that meet the 504/507.00 specifications, which essentially includes the 505.01 specification. And the fact that the 504/507.00 specification is backward compatible is not just theoretical, but also practical. You just need to read the information provided by the oil manufacturers with understanding, and then the circle of information from Volkswagen and the oil manufacturers will close. And that's exactly what so many people have tried to explain. You are spreading dangerous misinformation combined with a resistance to being corrected. Wishing you a very merry Christmas . I believe that everything that can be said about VW oil standards has now been said.

I think we should end this thread now because it's pointless.

scroll tdi wrote:

Attention: Fuchs Öl is the only manufacturer of a 5w-40 oil approved for use with a DPF.

I purchased my 505.01 oil from this company http://www.mapo.at/produkte/mapo/mapo_0.php, and it has C3 (DPF) approval. It's a 5W/40 oil and does not contain LL.