TDI Ultra Engines: AdBlue Consumption

Hello,

More recent TDI engines that meet the Euro 6 emissions standard use AdBlue (urea) to reduce nitrogen oxides from the storage catalyst into nitrogen and water.

Are there any reports on the system's reliability at low ambient temperatures (below -20°C) and regarding the consumption of AbBlue (AdBlue)?

Best regards, Rainer.

Hello.
According to online forums, the fuel consumption is between 0.7 and 1 liter per 1,000 km, which naturally depends on the type of diesel used. Depending on the tank, they can travel between approximately 10,000 and 30,000 km. When the tank is empty, nothing works anymore. I haven't heard anything about freezing or similar issues. The winters haven't been very severe in recent years, and the trend is towards temperatures "around the freezing point."
Should AdBlue become more environmentally friendly ?
haithamina

Coming from the truck industry, I've been dealing with AdBlue for quite some time.
A truck typically consumes fuel for a distance of approximately 5,000 to 15,000 kilometers.
I had never heard of "Eingefroren" before, and I've never had any problems with it.
However, if the tank is completely empty, you'll only have about 30% of the power remaining, and simply refueling won't be enough; the corresponding error codes need to be cleared.
Whether this can be directly applied to car engines is questionable, but it will certainly be similar.
Best regards,

dieselschrauber wrote:

System reliability at low ambient temperatures (-20°C and colder)?

Hello.

At least in the new Passat, there is a heating element installed in the AdBlue tank! (The freezing point is -11°C). I learned this recently from a VW expert, or I saw it on TV...

With a range of 2000 km for the AdBlue tank, a warning will appear indicating that it needs to be refilled (using a VW high-gloss, free-pour bottle...). After this "deadline," the engine will eventually no longer start.

I find this very concerning and a condescending approach towards the customer... I suspect the vehicle would still meet Euro 4 standards even without this unnecessary addition.

SG
Alevuz.

Hi Rainer,

I have the AdBlue system in my Sharan. Of course, the entire system is heated, so there's a heated area in the tank, heated lines, and a heated injection unit.
As soon as the car is parked, it pumps everything from the supply line back into the tank. That makes sense. The colder it is (we just returned from a ski vacation, and it stood outside for a week, with temperatures always at or above zero, and down to -14 degrees Celsius at night), the longer it takes for the starting permission to be granted due to the heating up of the lines, etc. Ours has the Kessy system, and this morning, after a week, it took a good ten seconds before it engaged the starter.
I'll report the consumption later. Theoretically, it should be significantly lower than the amounts reported here. I'm also trying to understand the system. Right now, I'm not seeing a clear correlation between the AdBlue amount and the NOx Sensor 1 value.

This stuff costs 42 cents per liter "straight from the tap."

Thank you for the information!

Regarding fuel consumption, I can give you some information after driving 800km. That would mean 5000km have passed since the last refueling, and it would be a good time to refuel again for comparison.

Not all vehicles require AdBlue.

- NOT the 150 hp TDI B8 Passat.
- already with 240 horsepower.
- The A6 4G facelift (320 hp TDI) also has it.

Possibly, you can fit the blue VW cap onto an Audi, and then it will also work without the hexagonal key .
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/182/4997/66634281/91-148-3-5793635385319447227-2474275432383469166.jpg

matthiasTDI96 wrote:

The colder it is (we just returned from a ski vacation, and it was always at least 0 degrees Celsius outside, with temperatures dropping to -14 degrees Celsius at night), the longer it takes to get the "start" permission because the system needs to warm up the lines, etc. Ours has the Kessy system, and this morning, after a week, it took a good ten seconds before it engaged the starter.

Hello,

Overall, it's a technical marvel, and I find it hard to believe that the exhaust cleaning system functions at 100% immediately after the engine starts.

Then the problem with the control unit isn't due to a real issue, but rather a failure of an exhaust-side pump or sensor.

... a beautiful new EU world, but also the same as in Canada, where trucks start regenerating in the middle of the icy road.

SG
Alevuz.

"I believe there's a lot to discuss. The DeNOx system, with its hydrolysis and nitrogen reduction, is quite simple in its reaction process. The NOx reduction effect will start immediately. This distinguishes it somewhat from other exhaust gas cleaning mechanisms."

Sure, the failure rate increases with each part installed. There's no point in discussing regulations dictated by Euro6 standards.

A pleasant side effect would be that, in principle, one could do without an EGR valve. Of course, no one will do this simply for the sake of reducing emissions. However, at the very least, the EGR rate could be reduced.

I'm curious to see when AdBlue consumption will be included in car tests. Theoretically, the AdBlue consumption in a vehicle with a fuel consumption of 5 liters per 100 km should be around 100 ml per 100 km. Let's assume 200 ml, so you won't be disappointed later. And refueling at the truck pump is something else .

Quote:

The colder it is (we just returned from a ski vacation, and it was always at least 0 degrees Celsius outside, with temperatures dropping to -14 degrees Celsius at night), the longer it takes to get the starting permission because the system needs to warm up the pipes, etc. Ours has the Kessy, and this morning, on the first start after a week, it definitely took about ten seconds before it engaged the starter.

I find that very interesting now! What good is that supposed to be at those temperatures, when the NEFZ (New European Driving Cycle) only starts at around +20°C ?

Have they at least adjusted the vehicle fuel tanks to be compatible with the truck fuel pumps? I mean, the fuel inlets should be large enough to accommodate the thicker nozzles. On the other hand, they are often occupied, which will specifically lead to significantly longer waiting times for you. While the truck fuel pumps can deliver up to 50 liters per minute (rarely more), filling a tank of 1200 liters or more still takes time.

"Back then, I removed the air intake manifold from the Peugeot 206 HDI, and I also liked to refuel at the truck pumps when they were available. I could fill the tank until it automatically shut off within 45 seconds, and then manually add the last 5 liters until it reached the brim in another 20 seconds. If you were quick, there were no spills, and you could enjoy the surprised looks of the cashiers when you ordered 45 liters at pump number 22, which was usually only used by the big trucks."

matthiasTDI96 wrote:

The colder it is (we just returned from a ski vacation, and it was always at least zero degrees outside, with temperatures dropping to -14 degrees Celsius at night), the longer it takes to get the "start" permission because the system needs to warm up the pipes, etc. Ours has the Kessy system, and this morning, on the first start after a week, it definitely took about ten seconds before it engaged the starter.

Are you sure the waiting time is due to the AdBlue heating process?
I would have attributed it more to the normal pre-glow of the engine. At -14°C, it's quite common for the engine to pre-glow for a few seconds.

Well, I'm not ruling anything out. But it also takes longer if the engine isn't completely cool yet. You can also clearly hear the pump starting up. It would also be unfavorable to push the fluid into a cold line. But, as I said, I'm still new to the AdBlue business...

Even though the test cycle is only supposed to start at 20 degrees Celsius, I believe it is important to ensure that the emission standards are met even at lower temperatures. The AdBlue system should not affect the fuel consumption cycle, unless the EGR rates have been adjusted accordingly.

Okay, I'm not sure what you mean by the "size of the nozzle." As far as I know, there are at least three different types of AdBlue nozzles, and possibly many more. Some have a magnetic anti-overflow protection, while others don't... I haven't noticed any differences in diameter so far, but that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any. Also, I can't imagine why a truck would need to carry 1200 liters of AdBlue. That would be quite excessive.
I also believe, as you can see from Martin's photos, that there isn't a standardized solution for this yet when it comes to vehicles. The Sharan, for example, has the fuel filler cap inside the car, and the pump fits there without any problems. If you use it carefully, it works quite well. It's not exactly comfortable, though. The lazy customer will go to the dealer and pay exorbitant prices per liter to have it refilled there...

Hello!

I've only experienced that with our trucks.
During the long night shift, I had to refuel every day, but the truck was also driven during the day.
I used to fill up with about 120 liters of fuel every day, and I had to refill the AdBlue once a week, which was always around 7-10 liters.

So, you could say that for every 600 liters of diesel, you need 8 liters of AB.

I also noticed that around Christmas, when we had more packages and were filling the trucks and trailers to the absolute limit, and we were essentially driving at full speed, we used less fuel.

At truck stops, the diesel pumps are heated, and I've heard that crystallization can occur below -18°C.
However, I'm not aware of any problems, or any issues that occurred during the winter.

I have also heard that the trucks are almost impossible to drive without the AdBlue system, and there is always the suspicion of tax evasion due to the emission values.
We always kept a canister of AB fluid in the car for emergencies. It's not a hazardous material, so there's no problem with that.
It costs approximately 60 cents per liter.

I think Matthias and Hut are talking past each other.

Diesel nozzle vs. AdBlue nozzle (from the pump, not from a bottle).

m;