Problems after installing a Golf IV gas stove on a 1Z

Here's a brief description of what I installed:
Tdi 1Z engine in a T3 Syncro.

Recently, I replaced the 1z Gaspoti (028 907 475 b) with a pedal from a Golf IV (e.g., 1K1 723 503 L).

The reason was that I wanted to move the potentiometer from "under the car" into the interior, because after several water crossings, the potentiometers were often damaged.

I found the various solutions with hanging pedals (like on the T4 and similar vehicles) to be ergonomically uncomfortable.
I haven't been able to find any (internal) wiring diagrams for these pedals yet. Online, I found a pinout diagram for the adapter. I soldered the adapter connector and, lo and behold, it works - almost.
The problem is: When the system is idle, I have 12%, which corresponds to approximately 1,200 revolutions. This can be reduced to about 1,000 revolutions when I apply the brake. "Vollgasanschlag" translates to "full-throttle attack" and is perfectly acceptable, 100%.
I'm amazed that it actually works. I opened up a gas pedal and instead of a potentiometer, I found a coil with a magnet. Otherwise, there's not much to see (it's cast).
Okay, here's the translation:

"Now, my questions: Does anyone have experience with the accelerator pedal sensor function? There's supposed to be a procedure for calibrating the accelerator pedal. However, no one has been able to tell me if this works on the 1Z model. Perhaps an internal functional diagram showing how the idle speed control valve works would be helpful." So far, I've only found schematics where the pedal is a "black box."

Thank you and greetings from Berlin.
nobu

Hi,

Quote:

There should be a routine to train the Gaspoti.

No, that was confused with the throttle valve adaptation on gasoline engines.

Is the excessively high value in the idle state the only problem, or does the acceleration actually work smoothly without any jerks or similar issues?

Is the 1Z gas pedal a potentiometer (ohmic resistor) or does it operate inductively? It would be hard to believe if you could randomly exchange them with each other...
What are the Ohmic values you measure at the terminals, when the device is not activated and when it is activated?

If the problem is only related to the basic position of the accelerator pedal, you can have a chip tuner of your choice adjust the accelerator pedal map (relatively simple) or, better yet, the conversion factors (which can be time-consuming to find, as this is something that is usually not needed).

Best regards, Rainer.

I also installed it, and it works 100%.

Connector:
Golf3 Gas pedal ---- Golf4 Pedal
6---------------------------------6
4---------------------------------5
5---------------------------------1
2---------------------------------2
3---------------------------------3
1---------------------------------4

If that doesn't work, then it's an unsuitable pedal!

Only older TDI models are compatible, mostly those with an EDC15 engine control unit (1.9 PD or VP37).

@mdonau, sorry, I was mistaken. I'm talking about the "stuck" accelerator pedal from the Golf V. For example, 1K1 721 115 J (AKTE image sheet 721-65, position 17). Do you have experience with that as well?
Greetings.
nobu

I'm investigating the problem, and I'll be working on it again tonight.

The throttle position sensor (the official designation) for the Golf V has sensors on connectors 1, 2, and 3, and on...
Connect input channels 4, 5, and 6 to sensor 2.

The throttle position sensor from a Golf III has been installed on...
Connect the donor to terminals 1, 2, and 3.
Connect the idle switch (twice) to terminals 4, 5, and 6.

Now, I suspect that the Golf III engine control unit expects a throttle position sensor and that the values from the sensors are different.

I'm going to take some measurements, disconnect sensor 2, and replace it with a button. I hope that a stable idle speed will eventually set in, because 1,400 RPM is annoying.

Greetings.
Norbert.

Hi,
I would be surprised if the kick-down switch was used in a Golf 3 1Z with a manual transmission. There is no lambda sensor (LL sensor) in that model. What does control module 002 say about the throttle position in the lambda sensor system? A potentiometer value of 12% doesn't seem right. The sensor's setpoint values are 0.8 - 1.4 kOhms. In my setup, "1" represents the contact point.

hg
Herbert.

Hello Herbert,

I'm currently measuring the output of a modified gas turbine.
The Golf 3, when disassembled, has a resistance of approximately 1 kOhm in the low-range setting, which is roughly correct.
I don't really have any issues with the Golf 5, which is confusing because it works fine except for the excessively high LL (likely referring to a specific parameter or setting).
However, this aligns with the understanding that the Golf 5 uses a coil instead of a sliding contact.
The conditions at my desk are currently quite unsuitable for taking measurements.
I'm going to try to build a test setup where I can fix the plugs in place (two hands are simply not enough ).
Sure, here's the translation:

"Best regards,"
Norbert.

?
DMM, 2 cables with Hirschmann connectors, and possibly some wire pieces (like paper clips) should be sufficient.
hg
Herbert.

Sure, something like that. A "third hand" because the plug always comes loose when I'm taking measurements...

The new pedals operate contactlessly via induction and integrated evaluation electronics, see for example the SSP 316.

Therefore, the voltage drop across a resistor will not be measured.
Instead, the sensor reports the pedal position through a voltage output, which requires a supply voltage to operate.
The fact that it works at all is probably due to a similar wiring configuration.

If I read that in the SSP, I completely fail to understand why the whole thing even works.
Generally, the gas pedal response is smooth up to the 100% point (full pedal travel). The throttle curve is quite progressive. However, it can be driven quite well after a little getting used to.
I read it again.
1. Cold engine: At idle (no accelerator pedal pressed), the engine speed is 8% and 1,400 RPM, while applying the brakes results in an engine speed of 1,200 RPM.
2. Warm engine, 8% incline with the accelerator pedal not depressed, and 1,200 RPM with brake application, resulting in 1,000 RPM.
What's a way to reduce that speed to around 400 RPM?
VG
Norbert.
My next attempts:
I will connect a jumper wire to the corresponding pins.
And experiment with resistors in series.

Hi,
It's quite clear that the accelerator pedal and the engine control unit (ECU) are not compatible. Please measure the resistance values of the accelerator pedal you intend to install. What's the problem with doing that?
Otherwise, I wouldn't experiment with the circuit while the MSG is connected. It's also possible to damage the outputs of the MSG. Your car...
hg
Herbert.

Herbert wrote:

What is the problem with doing that?

You can only measure the voltage at the new power supplies, as the signal is not being transmitted through...
It is not generated by a resistor, but rather by evaluation electronics.

If so, you would need to apply the operating voltage and then you could access the output.
measure the circuit in the pedal.

One can, however, be convinced that the donor does not behave like a potentiometer. Q.E.D.
hg
Herbert.

I have already measured that the pedal does not behave like a potentiometer (the resistance goes towards infinity).
However, that doesn't explain why it still works (except for the excessively high idle speed)!

That's pedal sensor technology. Mdonau has already given you some hints. Sure, here's the translation:

"In short:"
- At the output (potentiometer) of pin 1Z, you'll find approximately 5V, with a resistance ranging from 0.8 to 1.4 kOhms. The output terminal provides a voltage of 0V to 5V (or current?) to the MSG, depending on the configuration. The LL position should correspond to 0V.
- For the accelerator pedal on the Golf V (if the SSP316 applies here), there is a supply voltage of 5 volts, and the output provides approximately 1-5 volts depending on the accelerator pedal position. So, it's 1V when idling.

For the 1Z MSG, you need a sensor that is compatible with the MSA 12 (or 15). However, the part we've been discussing doesn't offer that compatibility. So, choose a donor that fits.
hg
Herbert.