Install a generator without a DF connection in an SDI system

Hi.

I have a car here that belongs to an acquaintance who is struggling financially.

Seat Arosa 1.7SDI 60hp, first registration 1999.

"The alternator failed today. A replacement is relatively expensive in this specific case, especially considering the vehicle's value, and it's impossible to find a used one."

Now I have the opportunity to get one that is identical in terms of dimensions and performance data, except that instead of the "DF" connector, it has the "W" terminal.

Both devices have a D+ connection, so it should work, and there should be at most one error entry in the MSG, or am I mistaken?

Unfortunately, the installation is quite complex, as the entire front needs to be removed, and the temperatures underground are very low. That's why I'm wondering if I can install it without any problems to get the vehicle running again.

Thank you, Rüdi.

Hi,

The 1.7 SDI engine has an engine control unit (ECU) that likely expects a DF signal. Without having tried it myself, it sounds like there could be potential problems. It's not that the engine control unit might start behaving strangely, or that a coolant glow plug heater, if installed, might stop working, or that the battery might not be charged properly in the medium term...

See also:
Okay, I understand. Please provide the German text you want me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

Best regards, Rainer.

Hello.

Without the DF, nothing works; the MSTG operates with the generator load.

The starter motors from the AMF 1.4 TDI are also compatible. They have 120A, which is not bad, and otherwise have the same mounting and freewheel mechanism. The DF connector is also present and matches the P+P specifications.

I also quickly found refurbished ones from Bosch for €78.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/BOSCH-Lichtmaschine-90A-Arosa-6H-1-7-1-9-D-SDI-VW-Lupo-6X1-Polo-6N1-6N2-6NF-SEAT/192252610554?fits=Model%3ALupo&hash=item2cc32607fa:g:mucAAOSw8vdZb4ZX

Regards, Mpire.

What does the MSG do when the DF signal is missing?

The D+ signal alone is sufficient to initiate the operation of the Lima device.

Unfortunately, the linked part is not the correct one; an exotic part is installed, and the cheapest option on eBay costs three digits.

Rüdi wrote:

What does the MSG do when the DF signal is missing? The D+ signal alone is sufficient to initiate the operation of the Lima device. Unfortunately, the linked part is not the correct one; an exotic part is installed, and the cheapest one at **** costs a three-digit amount

.

I can offer to test it on my car if you have VCDS connected. Unfortunately, it won't be available until Saturday, as the car won't be back home until tomorrow evening.

Regards, Mpire.

Rüdi wrote:

Unfortunately, the linked part is not the correct one; an exotic part is installed, and the cheapest option at **** costs three digits.

I honestly don't know anything about the Arosa or the SDI, but I'm really curious:
What is so exotic about the type of bra used that it *must* be that specific one?
When I search for "Arosa SDI alternator" in Google Images, the results look very similar to many other alternators from that era. Am I missing a crucial difference?

I thought that, based on the modular design principle, almost anything would fit as long as it had the same mounting holes and connector shape (and the pin configuration is usually the same, as long as you stay within the production years). So, what am I missing?

The question is...
Guste, who also installed a more powerful alternator from a Golf V in his 2005 Galaxy (which is the same as the Sharan), even though it wasn't originally included in that model.

The design is similar to gasoline engines, it has a 90A output, and requires the "D+" and "DF" connections.

And that's where opinions differ; most people suggest using terminal "W" instead of terminal "DF" for this car, which is why I'm asking this question.

In the other connectors that you can find for this car, you will find terminals labeled "L" and "DFM".

The main thing is to invest only as much as absolutely necessary, especially because the project is only expected to run for a few more months and the budget is tight.

Update: I found a 70A alternator in my stock that was originally installed in an A3 or Golf IV TDI. It has terminals DF and W. I briefly compared it to the original equipment (OE) alternator installed in the Arosa, using the Bosch e-catalog online. The dimensions are identical, as mentioned. The differences are the terminals and a pulley with a one-way clutch for a 6PK belt instead of a 5PK belt on the Seat.

Despite the brutal -13°C temperature, I managed to remove the front panel and extract the faulty alternator. It took a lot of fiddling, but I eventually finished the job in just under an hour, mostly because I had to constantly search for where all the screws were hidden and change my gloves every 10 minutes.

I left the pulley on; having one extra groove doesn't matter. The belt just needs to be aligned flush on the outside, and then everything will line up.

Connected, installed, fresh battery inserted, and the alternator is working. Charging voltage without load is 14.4 volts, and with almost all consumers connected, it's 14.1 volts.

I haven't checked if there are any error codes stored, it's too cold for me to take the netbook outside, the car is running for now, and the young lady is happy for now.

I'll see if the old alternator can be salvaged... If there are no problems, then everything will stay as it is. Otherwise, we now have time to look for a more affordable alternator.

Okay, so, after I had completely reassembled the whole thing yesterday, I took it for an extensive test drive, activated all the consumers, and then used my 1551 to read the error memory -> No error entries.

The voltage is as it should be, so the device can function for now. I will provide an update if there is any news.

Okay... Thank you for the feedback!

For the sake of posterity:
As I understand it, the terminals are only connected to the regulator and not to the main alternator.
If a new lingerie machine costs a fortune, you could also opt for a similar (cheaper) basic model with different connectors and then replace the controller.

Greetings.
Guste.

In this version, the terminals are not connected to the regulator, but rather to the diode plate inside the alternator, and these connections are then brought out to the exterior.

When the DF contact is connected to the MSG, the load regulation functions, for example, the operation of the glow plugs. Without a connection, there is an error 01117.
The EDC TDI (SDI) does not require terminal W; instead, it uses sensor G28 for engine speed.
The signals at the contacts are completely different.
We've been here before.
hg
Herbert.

And every day, the SDI consumes its kilometers, and soon I'll be able to work on the timing belt... there's plenty of room.

Hello everyone,

May I bring up this topic again?

"Please see the attached log; I'm having a problem with the generator terminal."
It's a Volkswagen Golf 4, 1.9 TDI, and the ESP (Electronic Stability Program) light is occasionally coming on.

The alternator provides 14 volts, so it's generally okay.
I don't understand what.
There is a connector with 2 wires attached to the Lima. One cable carries approximately 11.3 volts, while the other carries 11.8 volts.
The thick cable leading to the battery shows 12.6 volts, or 14.xx volts when the system is running.

The terminals on the alternator/regulator are only labeled B1+ and B2+. Therefore, one of the two "small" cables has no label. The "smaller" cables are red and blue, and are bundled together in a connector.
One will be the signal path from the AI, and the other...? I don't understand why these two small cables are causing a reduced onboard voltage?!
And why does the error occur sporadically?

Can someone help me?
"Thank you!!"

Update:

I understand that one of them is the signal wire from the AI battery symbol, and the other (presumably) is the speed sensor, which also carries voltage. Strange...

After researching online, I found a broken cable near the battery, specifically at the starter motor. The insulation was damaged, but the cable itself seemed to be in relatively good condition. It involves exactly the two cables (one for the sensor and one for the RPM), as well as two cables for the air conditioning compressor.

I insulated the cables and re-measured them. Unfortunately, no improvement.

Is there a way to test the Lima regulator?