Install Alternator Without DF Connector in SDI Car

Hi there!

I have a car here that belongs to an acquaintance who is struggling financially.

Seat Arosa 1.7 SDI 60 hp, first registration 1999.

"The alternator failed today. A replacement is relatively expensive in this specific case, especially considering the vehicle's value, and it's impossible to find a used one."

Now I have the opportunity to get one that is identical in terms of dimensions and performance data, except that instead of the "DF" connector, it has a "W" terminal.

Both devices have a D+ connection, so it should work. There shouldn't be more than one error entry in the MSG (Message) log, or am I mistaken?

Since the installation is unfortunately complex and requires removing the entire front panel, and the outside temperatures are extremely low, I'm wondering if I can install it without any issues to get the vehicle running again.

Thank you, Rüdi.

Hi,

The 1.7 SDI engine has an engine control unit (ECU) that likely expects a DF signal. Without having tried it myself, this sounds like it could cause potential problems. It's possible the ECU might start behaving erratically, a potentially installed coolant glow plug heater might stop working, or in the medium term, the battery might not charge properly.

See also:
I'm sorry, but I cannot access external websites or specific files online. Therefore, I am unable to translate the text from the provided URL.

Best regards, Rainer.

Hello.

Without the DF, nothing works; the MSTG operates based on the generator load.

The LIMAS (alternator modules) from the AMF 1.4 TDI are also compatible. They have a current output of 120A, which is quite good, and otherwise they have the same connections to the bracket and the freewheel mechanism. The DF connection is also present and fits perfectly (P+P).

I also quickly found refurbished ones from Bosch for €78.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/BOSCH-Lichtmaschine-90A-Arosa-6H-1-7-1-9-D-SDI-VW-Lupo-6X1-Polo-6N1-6N2-6NF-SEAT/192252610554?fits=Model%3ALupo&hash=item2cc32607fa:g:mucAAOSw8vdZb4ZX

Regards, Mpire.

What does the MSG do when the DF signal is missing?

The D+ signal alone is sufficient to initiate the operation of the Lima device.

Unfortunately, the linked part is not compatible; an exotic replacement is needed, and the cheapest option on eBay costs three digits.

Rüdi wrote:

What does the MSG do when the DF signal is missing? The D+ signal alone is sufficient to initiate the operation of the Lima device. Unfortunately, the linked part is not suitable; an exotic replacement is installed, and the cheapest option at [website name] costs a three-digit amount

.

I can offer to test it on my car when I have VCDS connected. Unfortunately, this won't be possible until Saturday, as the car won't be back home until tomorrow evening.

Regards, Mpire.

Rüdi wrote:

Unfortunately, the linked part is not suitable; an exotic replacement is installed, and the cheapest option at [website name] costs three digits.

I admittedly don't know anything about the Arosa or the SDI, but I'm really curious:
What is so exotic about the bra that it *must* be exactly this one?
When I search for "Arosa SDI alternator" on Google Images, the results look like many other alternators from that era. Am I missing a crucial difference?

I thought that the modular design principle would mean that almost anything with the same mounting holes and connector shape would fit (since the pin configuration is usually identical as long as you stay within the production years). So, what am I missing?

The question is...
"Guste, who also installed a more powerful alternator from a Golf V in his 2005 Galaxy (which is the same as the Sharan), an alternator that was never originally included in that model."

The design is similar to gasoline engines, it has a 90A output, and requires the connections labeled "D+" and "DF".

And that's where opinions differ; most people who have offered solutions for this car suggest using terminal "W" instead of terminal "DF," which is why I'm asking my question.

In the other terminals that you can find for this car, you will see markings labeled "L" and "DFM".

The goal is to only invest as much as absolutely necessary, especially because the project is only expected to run for a few more months and the budget is tight.

Update: I found a 70A alternator in my stock that was originally installed in an A3 or Golf IV TDI. It also has the DF and W terminals. I briefly compared it to the original one installed in the Arosa, using Bosch's online parts catalog (ecat). The dimensions are identical, as mentioned before. The differences are the terminals and a pulley with a freewheel mechanism for a 6PK belt instead of a 5PK belt on the Seat.

Despite the brutal -13°C temperature, I managed to remove the front panel and extract the faulty alternator. It took a lot of fiddling, but ultimately I finished the job in just under an hour, mostly because I had to constantly search for where all the screws were hidden and change my gloves every 10 minutes.

I left the pulley on; having one extra groove doesn't matter. The belt just needs to be aligned flush with the outside edge, and then everything will line up correctly.

Connected, installed, fresh battery inserted, and the alternator is working. Charging voltage without load: 14.4 volts; with most consumers connected: 14.1 volts.

I haven't checked if there are any error codes stored. It's too cold for me to take the netbook outside, but the car is running fine for now, and the young lady is happy.

I'll see if the old alternator can be salvaged... If there are no problems, then everything will stay as it is. Otherwise, we now have some time to look for a more affordable alternator.

Okay, so after I had completely reassembled everything yesterday, I took it for an extensive test drive, activated all the consumers, and then used my 1551 to read the error memory -> No error entries.

The voltage is as it should be, so the device can function for now. I will provide an update if there are any new developments.

Okay... Thanks for the feedback!

For the sake of posterity:
As I understand it, the terminals are only connected to the regulator and not to the main alternator (alternator).
If a new lingerie machine costs a fortune, you could also get an identical (cheaper) basic model with different connectors and then simply replace the controller.

Greetings.
Sure.

Here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"Guste" means "gust" in English. It can also be used as a verb, meaning "to gust."

In this version, the terminals are not connected to the regulator itself, but rather to the diode plate inside the alternator, and these connections are then brought out externally.

When the contact DF is connected to the MSG (Main System Generator), the load regulation functions, for example, the operation of the glow plugs. Without a connection, an error code 01117 appears.
The EDC TDI (SDI) does not require terminal W; instead, it uses sensor G28 for engine speed.
The signals at the contacts are completely different.
We've been here before.
hg
Herbert.

And every day, the SDI consumes its kilometers (km), and soon I'll be able to work on the timing belt... there's plenty of room.

Hello everyone,

May I bring up this topic again?

See the attached log; I'm having a problem with the generator terminal.
It's a Volkswagen Golf 4 (Mk4) 1.9 TDI where the ESP warning light comes on intermittently.

The alternator provides 14 volts, so it's generally okay.
What I don't understand:
The connector on the Lima has two wires. One wire carries approximately 11.3 volts, and the other carries 11.8 volts.
The thick cable leading to the battery shows a voltage of 12.6 volts, or 14.xx volts when in operation.

The connections on the alternator/regulator are only labeled with B1+ and B2+. Therefore, one of the two smaller cables has no label. These "smaller" cables are red and blue and are bundled together in a connector.
One will be the power line from the AI, and the other... what? I don't understand why these two small cables are causing a reduced onboard voltage?!
And why does the error occur sporadically?

Can someone help me?
THANK YOU!!

Update:

Ich habe verstanden, dass das eine die Erregerleitung vom KI Batteriesymbol ist und das andere (vermutlich) der Drehzahlabgriff sein soll, der jedoch auch Spannung führt. Strange...

After researching online, I found a broken cable located below the battery on the starter motor. The insulation was damaged, but the cable itself seemed to be okay. It involved two specific cables (the excitation and speed cables), as well as two cables leading to the air conditioning compressor.

I have insulated the cables and measured them again. Unfortunately, there is no improvement .

Is there a way to test the Lima regulator?