TDI with transmission from the TD?

Hello,

First of all, I'd like to introduce myself. My real name is André, and I've been driving a Passat 35i (TD - AAZ - 75 hp) for about a year now. But slowly, I'm starting to crave a little more power.

I'm planning to replace my 75hp TDI engine (AAZ) with a 90hp TDI. My sister has one in her Passat (year 1995 - B4), and it works pretty well. Mine is from 1992 (B3).

The 90 hp engine has drum brakes at the rear as well, so I wouldn't need to modify anything there. The engine mounts should also fit, since it's the same engine block used by Volkswagen.
Otherwise, it's just the engine and all the engine electronics that are affected, or am I mistaken?

I'm not sure if the transmission from a TD will fit. I mean, is the gear ratio and everything else compatible with the TDI transmission? When driving, it feels like the transmissions are completely different.

Can you help me with this? Did I forget anything?

Best regards,
André.

The TD transmission has a shorter gear ratio. I wouldn't install it. You won't be able to get out of the shifting process, and you won't reach the top speed. Furthermore, the TD engine produces significantly less torque than a TDI engine; I believe the drivetrain wouldn't last long with that. As far as I know, the Golf model doesn't have stabilizer bars for the TD engine. I don't know how it is with the Passat, but if they are also missing, you would need to install them.

@x world

To the best of my knowledge, EVERY G3 model has stabilizer bars (while only the GTD diesel version had them in the G2).

And stabilizers have nothing to do with engine power; they mainly serve to improve driving comfort.

Since the B3 also had a 1.6 TD LLK engine with 80 hp / 155 Nm and a 2.0 16V engine with 181 Nm, the drive system should be able to handle the 202 Nm of torque from the 1Z engine.

Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

Hi there,

also meiner Meinung nach stehen Aufwand und Kosten eines 1Z-Implantates in eine "AAZ"-Karosse in keinen Verhältnis zum späteren Ergebnis. So eine Aktion dürfte schon allein wegen dem Verlegen und anpassen der Elektrik einige Zeit dauern. Die 66 kW vom 1Z kann man aus dem AAZ aber ganz locker durch klassiches Dieseltuning freimachen, auch 74 kW dürften da noch standfest machbar sein. Einen LLK an den AAZ stricken dürfte mit den orginal-Teilen vom 1Z oder AFN sicher günstig machbar sein. Wenn deine AAZ-ESP eine LDA-Einrichtung hat (Ladedruckanreicherung), wäre das natürlich hilfreich, beim AAZ geht das leider etwas wild durcheinander, gibt auch welche ohne. JeIn any case, you'll need an additional oil cooler and adjustments to the LDA (injection nozzle cone) as well as the...fuel injection amount. The turbocharger's boost pressure also needs to be increased, but this is easily done on the AAZ engine by adjusting the wastegate. It's just classic tuning.
If you don't make things too complicated, the effort and cost involved are definitely much lower than installing a completely different engine. Of course, even a tuned AAZ won't have the same "oomph" as a 1Z, but it will achieve similar peak power. Personally, I can certainly do without those last few Nm of torque below 2200 rpm. And the transmission is much happier with the significantly smoother combustion process of a swirl chamber diesel engine, even if the nominal torque values are the same.

Regards,
Jens.

Jens is actually right.

Or just buy a B4 TDI .

How is an AAZ supposed to function without LDA (Linear Direct Injection)?? It's completely mechanically controlled, and without LDA, it's just a naturally aspirated diesel engine .

Do not confuse this with the G2 engines. Those had a 1V engine (?), which was a neutered version of the JR.
Turbo but no LDA, 60 horsepower, catalytic converter, and yet only equivalent to Euro1 standards .

m

Quote:

How is an AAZ supposed to function without LDA?! It's completely mechanically controlled, and without LDA, it's just a naturally aspirated diesel engine .

Hi dieselmartin,

I can't just let that stand like this.
A Turbo-D becomes a TD due to the turbocharger, not because of an LDA .
Es gibt bei den diversen AAZ-Modellen wirklich alles mögliche, also sowohl ESP mit als auch ohne LDA, wobei sich mir die Systematik noch nicht erschlossen hat. Für die lächerlichen 55 kW aus 1,9l Hubraum braucht man auch keine LDA. VW hat den Turbo am AAZ ähnlich wie beim seligen 1V eher als Luftpumpe zur Rußreduzierung eingesetzt, weniger als leistungsförderndes Bauteil. Der 1,6TD-Motor mit LLK im Golf2 leistete ja schon gesunde 59 kW, also 7% mehr Leistung bei 16% weniger Hubraum. Da The AAZ may not be fully utilized.

Regards,
Jens.

Jens 16syncro wrote:

... The 1.6TD engine with intercooler in the Golf 2 already produced a healthy 59 kW, which is 7% more power with 16% less displacement.

Okay, but also 44 kW in the so-called 1.6 TD "ECO Diesel" engine. Even then, it had a catalytic converter (but with limited power). Compared to the 37 kW naturally aspirated engine, this represents a significant increase in performance.
Back then, Volkswagen assembled everything that could be combined in any way. Even engines with the same type code often had fundamentally different equipment levels (see AAZ engines with and without AGR valve).

Hmm...

The problem is, I'm attached to my car. So, the point of buying a B4 is already off the table.

A friend of mine mentioned the same thing... It's better to modify the existing AAZ engine a bit rather than installing a completely new one.

'LLK shouldn't be a problem; after all, the TDI engine also uses it, and the engine block is the same.'

Beim Ölkühler stell ich mich wahrscheinlich bisschen blöd an, aber ich glaub ich hab ma gelesen, dass das relativ schwer sein sollte, sowas anzubauen. Wenn, dann könnt ich mir das so vorstellen, dass zwischen den Ölfilter und Motor so ne Art 'Zwischenstück' kommt, dass es erlaubt, das Öl in nen anderen Kreislauf zu lassen und dann wieder zuück in den Ölfilter (und dann natürlich Motor). Weiss nicht, aber hab das glaub ich mal an nem Golf 2 so gesehen. Gibts sowas? Und Does anyone happen to have pictures showing the best way to connect an oil cooler to a VW AAZ engine?

Boost enrichment? Hmm... How can I tell if a vehicle has it or not?

What does this actually mean legally? I mean, this is a performance enhancement. Should I take it to the TÜV (German technical inspection agency) and have it measured? Or will it cause problems even during a regular TÜV inspection?

Thank you for your replies. I think this forum is fantastic.

Best regards,
André.

LLK in the AAZ is a complicated issue.

"There was a time when these [entries/records] were no longer registered. I believe KW-systems can probably have them re-registered."

"At least in the G3, there are models with AAZs that have an additional water cooler located where the 1Z LLK would normally be installed! If you have one of those, it will be extremely uncomfortable for a LLK."

LDA is a type of membrane diaphragm that's installed on the fuel injection pump.

Okay, please provide the German text you would like me to translate into English. I will only provide the translation.

Hello,

ich hab für den AAZ-Passat 35i von meiner Freundin nen alten Passat (auch 35i) mit 1,6er SB-Motor gekauft, dort den LLK mit Schläuchen und die ESP ausgebaut, ne andere 70PS-Pumpe vom Schrott reingebaut und die Karre so wieder verkauft, als Baustellengurke tuts der auch so. Die ESP hab ich jetzt in meinem alten Passat 32B (mit Nissan-LLK), und der AAZ hat den SB-LLK drin mit 1bar Ladedruck. Auf der ESP (früher ohne LDA) sitzt ein Pumpenoberteil mit LDA vom Schrott. Ich habs noch nicht verglichen, aber ich behaupte mal, damit läßt Du jeden ungechippten 1Z stehen. Ölkühler brauchst Du nicht, wenn Du ne vernünftige Reisegeschwindigkeit fährst. Ab 16"Running at a constant speed will obviously be tight, but the LLK (likely referring to a liquid-cooled system) significantly reduces the thermal problems that the AAZ engine typically experiences.""It's strange how that happened. Because of what I did, the car now uses 6.5 liters per 100 km, whereas before it used 7. I honestly didn't believe it at first."
My advice: keep the AAZ engine, make sure it doesn't fail due to the crankshaft bolt issue, convert it to run on vegetable oil, and install an auxiliary liquid cooler, then you'll have a fuel-efficient, peppy, and practical car.

For details on tuning mechanical TDs, you can find a forum here:
http://forum.piranha-net.de/


Best regards, Uli.

dieselmartin wrote:

@ x world To the best of my knowledge, EVERY G3 model has stabilizer bars (while only the GTD diesel version had them in the G2). And stabilizers have nothing to do with engine power; they mainly serve to improve driving comfort. Since the B3 also had a 1.6 TD LLK engine with 80 hp / 155 Nm and a 2.0 16V engine with 181 Nm, the drive system should be able to handle the 202 Nm of torque from the 1Z engine. m;

Not everyone had the rear spoiler. But I don't know of any inspection agency (TÜV) that would approve a performance upgrade unless you modify the suspension to match how it was originally set up on cars with the more powerful engine.

Regarding the transmission, it's certainly capable of handling the torque, which might be okay. However, I still believe that it would be too short for a TDI engine.

Hi,
"At least retrofitting the oil cooler is quite straightforward: Check for space, use a Mocal/Racimex adapter WITH a thermostat, find a suitable radiator/hoses from a junkyard, and assemble everything."










The discussion about converting to a single-row or two-row seating configuration has been ongoing within the Volkswagen Bus community for years.
The two engines with LLK (charge air coolers) are not very different in terms of power output. With the TDI engine (T3 = complete conversion), the wiring can be quite a lot of work, which many people would prefer to avoid. However, it's also relatively easy to adjust the turbo boost and fuel injection on the AAZ engine, allowing for potential increases in power, sometimes reaching 100 horsepower.
I'm not familiar with Golf transmissions, but interestingly, at least with VW bus transmissions, the load capacity is the same for diesel versions (whether naturally aspirated or turbocharged). They are always designed for approximately 175 Nm + 10%, and they hold up fine even in a 1Z engine with 202 Nm (although the clutch – standard TD: 137 Nm – can be an issue; I have a clutch from a 112 PS water-cooled boxer engine).
Hi Marcus,