Fogging systems before LLK inlet.:-((

Hello,

For a change, let's talk about a basic topic related to LLMs:

Today, I took several LL (Low-Level) temperature readings while driving on the highway, each time with the engine running at full throttle in 4th gear up to approximately 4300 rpm. The outside temperature was around 13°C (which is definitely not summer weather *shivers*!).

I had, on several occasions, removed the fog lamp in front of the air intake to improve the airflow.

And indeed:
With the optional factory-installed cooling system (NSW), the maximum temperatures were 80°C, while without the NSW, they were 74°C.

For comparison: with the LLK cooling air intake completely blocked, the maximum temperature reached 92°C, and that was even at an outdoor temperature that was about 4°C higher!

That means nothing other than that the factory-installed foggers reduce the LLK cooling effect (under random experimental conditions) by at least approximately 18 to 12°C, which is about a third .

If I had known, I would have ordered my car without fog lights .

So, I've finally found my next crafting project: I need to improve the airflow around the humidifier.
If that doesn't work or isn't possible, I'll probably drive without the fog lights in the summer and only install them in the winter.

Hi Ulf,

This is once again a great example of the cost accounting and design of modern cars. I remember thinking the same thing back then when I first saw this daytime running light from Hella for the Golf 4. This is essentially the same (faulty) construction as with your fog lights.

Have you considered the possibility of selling your existing NSW (number plates) and getting retrofitted NSW plates instead? Because I don't know how you can improve the airflow around the NSW to reach the LLK (low-level keyway).

Do you still have any benchmark results for your G3 in mind?

See you later.
Greetings.
Thomas.

That's why there are no aftermarket fog lights available for the Golf IV with turbo engines!

Regards,

Manuel.

Hi,

They've also got that ridiculous design on the new Ibiza... it seems to be becoming more common.

By the way, that's also the reason why I don't have daytime running lights yet. The only place where they could be legally installed on the 6K would be right in front of the license plate lamp, and of course, I don't want to do that.

@Ulf:

Have you been able to determine from the data whether there was an influence of higher intake air temperatures on performance and fuel consumption?

Best regards,

Jan.

Skoda, like its parent company, is setting a good example. At Fabi's place, it's solved just as elegantly.
Moreover, they installed this flimsy plastic part for the airflow that always hangs crookedly and further restricts the airflow.

Thomas wrote:

Have you considered the possibility of selling your existing NSW and installing aftermarket NSW? Because I don't know how you can improve the airflow to the LLK around the NSW.

Hi Thomas,

Aftermarket NSW (New South Wales) license plates likely require different mounting points, which would mean more tinkering to attach them to the license plate holders – I don't think it would be worth the effort.

I already have a few ideas for improving the airflow with the existing New South Wales (NSW) infrastructure.
If it works out, I'll let you know.

Quote:

Do you still have any benchmark values for your G3 in mind?

No, I probably never logged that LLT data.

Jan6K wrote:

Have you checked to see if you could determine any influence of higher intake air temperatures on performance and fuel consumption from the measurement data?

So, even with the LLK inlet sealed, the soot limit is still above the torque limit.
Therefore, I don't really believe there will be a significant loss of performance – unless, for example, it's caused by a late start to the injection process. I, of course, didn't log that.

My dear Ulf...


.... now I really have to wonder about you. .....

/Turning on sarcasm mode
You're complaining about the weight of your car, and then you also have NSW on your car... Have you actually calculated how that worsens the power-to-weight ratio...? ...and then also reduces the airflow to the intercooler...? Well, I don't know what to say about that.

What unnecessary baggage are you still carrying around? The toolbox weighs approximately 100 kg.
/Sarcasm mode on

Hi!

That's why I installed an air intake on my Bora. It's simply a few air vents in the front bumper, where other vehicles might have their side marker lights. These are integrated into the main headlights in the Bora.

The advantage of the whole thing is that the intercooler of my AJM engine is nicely cooled by the airflow. Previously, the inlets were sealed with original parts.

I am sorry, but I cannot access external websites, including the one you provided. Therefore, I am unable to translate the text from the given URL.

Hi Jericho.

You really need to clarify that for us. As far as I know, every Golf IV and Bora I've seen has a simple plastic grille in front of the radiator. That's certainly very breathable and might even offer some protection against stone chips. Why was that the case for you?

Hi,

Quote:

Why was that the case for you?

I suspect that, like many others in the forum, he is a victim of an accident repair where the workshop was unaware that a TDI engine has a low-temperature coolant system that needs to be cooled by airflow.

@Bertil: Don't forget the laptop; even with the accessories, it weighs a few kilos.

@Ulf: If it doesn't affect performance, you should investigate whether it has any influence on the injection timing and, consequently, fuel consumption before making any major modifications. Perhaps the "misconstruction" is intentional, in the sense that they knew it wouldn't have a disruptive effect?

Best regards,

Jan.

If I had known, I would have ordered my car without fog lights .

If that doesn't work or isn't possible, I will probably drive without the fog lights in the summer and only install them in the winter.

Did you save money on safety?

Please note: Your vehicle has a lot of tolerances in every respect. Whether it's clearances, the powertrain, etc., you probably won't notice the 6°C (and I emphasize, at full load) difference in the coolant temperature, or it will hardly be noticeable. How inaccurate is the temperature measurement? (Tolerance: sensor, VCDS, laptop?) And you certainly didn't have laboratory conditions for your test, did you? So, those 6°C are more than questionable.

If you continue to argue like this, you would first need to significantly lower your vehicle (regarding its drag coefficient/frontal area), fill in all the gaps, and optimize your powertrain and suspension. Remove the exterior mirrors and the radio antenna. What's more important for achieving higher speeds is the air resistance, rather than the power output. To achieve greater effects here, the power must be increased properly, or the resistance must be slightly reduced.
Furthermore, some visual cosmetic enhancements would be appropriate for your car, such as a spoiler on the rear hatch, or an underbody panel.

For comparison, I dug up my LLK (low-temperature coolant) data from the AWX: At the time, the outside temperature was 34°C, and I performed several anti-fog tests, with periods of idling in between (for data analysis). The LLK temperature ranged from 36°C to 68°C... the only thing that drastically increased was the diesel temperature. The PD has good receiving qualities here.
A log of a 40km highway drive results in an average coolant temperature of 50-60°C, and this is achieved with standard NSW (New Standard Wheels) in the ventilation grille.

Full of energy and ready to go...

Bertil wrote:

You're complaining about the weight of your car, and then you also have NSW on your car... Have you actually calculated how that worsens the power-to-weight ratio...? ...and then also reduces the airflow to the intercooler...? Well, like this: head shaking

I was just thinking that Neblers don't weigh much (which is also true, estimated to be less than 1 kg).
I simply didn't anticipate this impressive and constructive achievement.
I probably haven't become cynical enough yet. I still have to learn that, and that's best done through frustration and pain .

Julian wrote:

Did you save money with Munter security?

It depends on how you look at it... the Nebler (fog lights) are an added bonus, so I wouldn't feel any less "safe" driving without them than I would with the minimum standard equipment.

Quote:

How inaccurate is the temperature measurement? (Tolerance: sensor, VCDS, laptop?) And you certainly didn't have laboratory conditions for your test, did you? So, those 6°C are more than questionable.

Objection: The outside temperature, engine speed, maximum load, and speed were all approximately the same (same day, same area).
The only significant difference was whether the sensor was inside or outside, and the measured value changed by approximately 6°C depending on that.
(two measurements: with humidifier 79.2 °C and 80.1 °C, without humidifier 71.1 °C and 73.8 °C)

The fact that the entire measuring apparatus is not calibrated might more or less distort the absolute values, but for relative measurements (and that's all I'm interested in), I believe the numbers are reliable.

I'm not necessarily looking for more power, but if a liquid cooling system is already installed, there's probably a reason for it (-> Gremlins' answer in the other thread).
And I want to avoid unnecessarily reducing this benefit through design flaws (i.e., the design flaws already exist, but I want to improve them).

Okay, back to the air intakes. In my case, both inlets in the bumper were closed off with plastic inserts (grids). And the 'grids' were only suggested, meaning they weren't actually breathable.

So, let's talk about the air intakes again. In my case, both inlets in the bumper were closed off with plastic inserts (grids). And the 'grids' were only suggested, i.e., not actually breathable.

In the Jetta (Bora / Golf IV, etc.), the coolant level sensor, if present at all, is only located on one side (the passenger side). The other side is always sealed except for a hole for the MFA outside temperature sensor.

If the passenger side was also locked, you either don't have a turbocharged engine, or someone has installed the wrong grille.
These Bonrath products should generally be avoided because they bring dirt into the engine compartment, and the cooling system (as well as brake lines, etc.) are exposed to unprotected stone chips.

Fortunately, for the Golf 1J, there's still the ARL model available, which features the large intercooler!
Theoretically, one could go right and left, as long as the center remains open!

In the picture, you can barely see a silver rim behind the middle grid; that's the LLK! The opening from the R32 front should also be slightly larger than it is on the original bumpers.
http://www.goffel.de/mammutueh/mini-CIMG4708.JPG

Did you save money on safety?


Well, Nebler really doesn't offer much more in terms of views. A little bit to the right and left, but that's about it. The only advantage I see with fog lights is their appearance (when they are designed as separate units, not integrated into the regular headlights).

Best regards, WarLord.