TÜV Approval: Increased Engine Power

Hello,
Since there are some TDI drivers in the forum who use chip boxes or OBDII tuning to modify their cars, I'm curious if you have had the increased power registered with the TÜV (German technical inspection agency) and possibly also with your insurance company.

What about traceability?
Is the engine compartment/vehicle inspected by an expert appraiser, and is the control unit removed, for example, in the case of a traffic accident involving personal injury?

What are your opinions on this topic?

Best regards, Jürgen.

Hi,

IF I had more power through a chip or tuning box (which I don't... I'm perfectly happy with the 110 horsepower, even when towing), I would definitely have it registered/approved, because the cost for that is ridiculously low compared to the worst-case scenario of illegal modifications.

"As far as I know, the level of documentation required depends on the effort involved, which in turn depends on the extent of the damage in the event of an accident. If the damages run into the millions, there will certainly be more thorough documentation than in the case of a minor fender-bender."

Best regards,

January.

Eintragen sollte man jede Veränderung am Fahrzeug prinzipiell immer. BUT:

Especially for someone who enjoys tinkering and modifying things themselves (whether it's adjusting values by 10 cents, changing potentiometer settings on tuning boxes, or altering maps/values in the ECU), there are two problems: 1. Modifications made yourself are not approved for registration (or are extremely difficult and expensive to get approved). 2. Any small change invalidates the existing registration.

Therefore, a tuning modification can only be registered if it involves a purchased box/chip that cannot be further modified.

I personally haven't registered my chip because it's a private development and wouldn't likely be detected by an average expert. However, I would be concerned if it were a tuning box that's visibly attached in the engine compartment or an ECU with a broken seal/sticker that clearly indicates it has been opened/modified.

The risks associated with driving a modified vehicle without proper registration are not just traffic stops or TÜV inspections, but rather the possibility of an accident involving personal injury. Fortunately, such accidents are rare, but if they occur, law enforcement officers often immediately have the vehicle towed to an insurance company's expert for inspection, who is particularly adept at finding these modifications. And no one should think they can 'quickly remove' the tuning box in such a situation. If an unauthorized performance enhancement is found during the investigation, the insurance company will quickly invoke a clause stating that this voids their coverage, and the driver or owner is responsible for covering the personal injury damages.

Conclusion: In the event of personal injury, I would assume that a tuning box or even a simple, inexpensive tuning device would be detected. Also, an engine control unit that appears to have been opened (either through broken seals/stickers or by conspicuously protruding cables, as seen with some switchable chips) is likely to raise suspicion. However, I doubt that an expert would open an engine control unit that appears original (e.g., the Golf3 doesn't have seals), even if there is a suspicion of tampering.

I would also appreciate hearing more opinions.

Regards,
Private.

There are engine control unit test benches that emulate a complete engine. It's not particularly complicated. I don't know to what extent the manufacturers (Bosch) offer such a service, but a modified engine control unit is detected much faster than it takes to put it on the table and connect it...

It also remains questionable whether such investigations will be pursued, because if someone is killed due to reckless driving, this consideration becomes irrelevant. You can drive too fast even in a Fiat 127. And if you end up in the woods on a wet road because you were going too fast, illegal tuning is unlikely to be relevant in court, as it was probably not the cause of the accident.

It could look different if the engine suddenly loses power during an overtaking maneuver, and witness statements provide clues suggesting this happened. In that case, I can imagine that some expert witnesses would pay close attention (keyword: emergency mode).

Ultimately, it will likely be classified as 'operating a vehicle without authorization.'

I'm curious if there are any court rulings on cases like this yet.

CU Gremlin.

Here's the translation:

"Regarding limp mode: It often occurs even without any modifications, for example, due to a stuck variable geometry turbocharger (VGT) or damaged vacuum hoses. Can I then claim that the accident was caused by, say, a faulty solenoid valve and sue the manufacturer because the system is too unsafe? Just think about how often limp mode happens in TDI engines. I estimate that every second one experiences it during its lifespan."

Whether undocumented modifications to a vehicle are relevant to an accident may be irrelevant for liability purposes, as the operating permit has simply expired. This is similar to driving without a driver's license: If someone is involved in an accident while driving without a valid license, they will be held liable, even if they were behaving correctly.

It's best to have it included in the policy (if possible). If, unfortunately, you get into an accident, the insurance company (whether yours or the other party's) will always try to avoid paying. If they can prove that there was an "uncovered additional service," however they manage it, then your insurance coverage is void, regardless of whether the additional service, a malfunction, or even a cat at risk of suicide was the actual cause. If no personal injury occurred or there's no reasonable suspicion of such, they simply won't bother. This is an uncalculable risk.

It is not always possible to register a chip or module, and having large nozzles/turbos installed also requires significant financial resources. I believe the latter will be more difficult to detect than a chip or module, unless the inspector is a "diesel mechanic."

"I apologize in advance for reviving an old thread..."

It's probably clear that a rewired chip/power box/turbocharger could be immediately detected in the worst-case scenario, but what about OBD tuning?

Ultimately, no hardware changes are made; some tuners even claim that the release date or software version remains the same – meaning: The control unit identifies itself as an original! OBD tuning should be virtually undetectable, or am I being too confident?

PS: I don't know anyone who has ever had their car tested on a dynamometer!

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

"LG" can be translated as "Best regards" or "Sincerely". It is a common abbreviation for "Liebe Grüße", which means "Warm greetings" in English.

Hi,

Whether it's OBD tuning or a piggyback module, it doesn't make a difference. If you pay attention, anyone with VAGCOM can see what's going on by looking at the relevant measurement blocks.

Best regards, Rainer.

The corresponding measurement values can only be logged during the journey, right? In my opinion, however, the vehicle will be unusable in 90% of cases due to serious accidents .

Otherwise, I would have said...

Jan6K wrote:

IF I had increased performance through a chip or tuning box, I would definitely have it registered, because the cost for that is ridiculously low compared to the worst-case scenario of illegal tuning.

I would certainly agree!

Okay, I can only share my experience from an accident that didn't involve any personal injuries but did cause significant property damage:

"When a speeding van in our A2 class vehicle forced us off the highway, both the offending vehicle (a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter 316) and our Audi were thoroughly examined by two expert appraisers. The appraisal report for our Audi detailed all the damages observed on the vehicle and its condition (tires, paint, etc.). It was declared a total loss, which was evident even without the appraiser's assessment, as it was half a meter shorter."
"The Sprinter had unregistered tire combinations and other unauthorized modifications, some of which lacked the required approval certificates. Furthermore, the vehicle had been modified with a performance upgrade, which likely contributed to the revocation of its operating permit. I naturally had the entire damage covered by the opposing party's liability insurance. Whether he now has to pay from his comprehensive insurance (if he even had one) is something I cannot say. However, as mentioned earlier, there was a legal proceeding regarding the compensation for pain and suffering that was due to me, which was partially covered by the insurance company and the other party involved in the accident."


So, always pay attention when a fast car is approaching from behind; they can be really quick... By the way, there was a speed limit of 100 km/h.

fulda wrote:

The corresponding measurement values can only be logged during the journey, right? However, in my opinion, the vehicle will no longer be drivable in 90% of cases involving serious accidents.

matthiasTDI96 wrote:

Well, it was a total loss, but you could tell that even without an expert, because it was half a meter shorter.

Exactly, that means no more VAGCOM diagnostic tests will be possible!
The sprinter definitely didn't have OBD tuning, but rather a tuning box or a modified control unit – too bad .

fulda wrote:

The corresponding measurement values can only be logged during the journey, right? In my opinion, however, the vehicle will no longer be drivable in 90% of cases involving serious accidents.

Sure, but even then, one could still...
Install the MSG into a different car and create a full-throttle log, or...
Read the dataset using an OBD tool and compare it to the original.

Whether such effort would be worthwhile can often be checked directly through diagnostics in newer MSG modules, if a checksum is provided for the data set (in my Polo, specifically module 17, which has changed completely since the tuning and no longer responds to reprogramming or adaptations).

So, what can be done to conceal illegal chip tuning in the event of an accident?
For example, you could add an extra airbag igniter to the main system control unit (MSG) and connect it – and hope that it actually triggers during a crash.

ulf wrote:

fulda wrote: The corresponding measurement values can only be logged during the journey, right? However, in my opinion, the vehicle will be unusable in approximately 90% of cases involving serious accidents. Sure, but even then, one could still... Install the MSG into a different car and create a full-throttle log, or... Read the dataset using an OBD tool and compare it to the original.

Well, if the MSG is being renovated, you probably won't have a chance...
But I thought the checksum would also remain unchanged? Otherwise, the engine wouldn't start at all, would it?

fulda wrote:

But I thought that the checksum would also remain unchanged?! Otherwise, the engine wouldn't start at all, would it?

No, the checksum will change because modified data, when processed using the same calculation method, will also produce different results, which are then represented as checksums. And these checksums must be consistent with the individual data they represent.

Otherwise, you could replace the checksum with a constant value - and in that case, no check would be possible .

Therefore, to be absolutely sure, there's no way around registering - thank you for this information .

Hi,

Quote:

No, the checksum will change because modified data, when processed using the same calculation method, will also produce different results, which are then represented as checksums. And these checksums must be consistent with the individual data they represent. Otherwise, you could replace the checksum with a constant value, which would make it impossible to verify the data.

At least, THAT'S how it SHOULD be, if the developer has done their homework. Sometimes things go differently... a wonderful example is the Xbox:

http://events.ccc.de/congress/2005/fahrplan/attachments/591-paper_xbox.pdf

...a highly interesting article from the Chaos Computer Club about how M$ tried to secure this thing, what happened to the initially good ideas in practice, and how it was ultimately hacked. Check values (not really sums... the basis of the calculation is RC4) also play a role.

Best regards,

January.