"Haltbarkeit" von Autoklimaanlagen | Posts 16+

What should I do? Should I throw a few hundred more euros into the climate control system?! The Peugeot is out of warranty, and all the experiments are costing me money.

However, the climate specialist was quite lenient and promised to give me another chance. He's been working on the 206 since this morning, and I'm waiting for his call. Let's see what happens next...

How did you measure?

The regulation for my Audi is as follows:
With the blower at maximum speed, recirculation on, and engine speed at 2000 RPM, you should achieve an outlet temperature of 3-6°C after 5 minutes, depending on the ambient temperature: 3-6°C at 30°C ambient, 3.5-6.5°C at 35°C ambient, and 5-8°C at 40°C ambient.
...and the 16-year-old mill can also do that .

He cleaned and disinfected the system for free (for me) and took measurements. He found that at an engine speed above 2000 RPM, with the recirculation system on and an air temperature of 25 degrees Celsius, the outlet temperature was 12 degrees Celsius. In his opinion, this is acceptable.

You would need to know something about the sizing of the system to say what it is capable of achieving. However, if it is delivering such a high value, then, in my opinion, it is unlikely to provide any real cooling capacity at higher temperatures and solar radiation.

Hutfahrer wrote:

He performed a cleaning and disinfection free of charge (for me) - and took measurements: At engine speeds >2000 RPM, he measured 12 degrees Celsius of outlet temperature with recirculated air, and today with an air temperature of 25 degrees Celsius. In his opinion, this is acceptable.

What's the point of recirculation if the climate control runs for a few minutes and the interior cools down anyway, especially if the initial temperature isn't 25°C?

I've often wondered about that too, but it's stated exactly like that in the original repair manual.

Yesterday, the climate technician worked on my vehicle for the third time, and I think we've finally found the problem. Due to lack of time, I could only perform a basic check yesterday, and I plan to take more precise measurements today. First of all: The system already felt like new yesterday. Within two to three minutes, the interior became quite cool, although it had unfortunately been standing in direct sunlight beforehand.

Today, I'm doing a test with a thermometer. I'm using an electronic one with a separate sensor. I wouldn't bet on its accuracy, as it's not calibrated. The testing conditions are as described: ambient air, fan running at full speed, and either an increased idle speed or normal operating conditions.

My vehicle was parked in the parking garage after the early shift. The outside thermometer on the 206 indicated 19 degrees Celsius, and the packed thermometer showed the same value. I started the engine, created the same environmental conditions as described above, and drove off. After leaving the parking garage, I turned on the air conditioning. If I turn on the air conditioning before that, with a cold engine, I can't make it up the rather steep exit ramp.

Within 2 minutes, the temperature at the central outlets dropped to 9 degrees Celsius, and then decreased by another degree approximately every 15 seconds. The experiment ended when the temperature reached 5.5 degrees Celsius. The thermometer itself, placed on the passenger seat, showed a temperature of 18 degrees Celsius. After 10 minutes of driving, and with a measured temperature of 15 degrees, I stopped the experiment due to the risk of catching a cold. During this time, the ambient air temperature was 26 degrees Celsius.

After the technician came yesterday and replaced some valve for €44.92, the system seems to be producing impressively cold air. It's cooling better than it ever did, even when it was almost new. I bought the 206 as a young showroom model, and I always found its cooling performance to be weak. It's amazing that it now has so much power.

The invoice hadn't been written yesterday, just before the end of the workday, and I'm supposed to receive it tomorrow. However, I had only paid for the valve yesterday, and supposedly there is nothing else outstanding. And I have already received the €20 deposit back for the customer's bicycle.

It was probably the expansion valve that he replaced. Its function has a significant impact on the overall performance of the air conditioning system.

Heute Wiedervorstellung, Grund waren glucksende Geraeusche im Klimabetrieb.

Fill level still at 57%. However, it was still running and cooling. Upon inspection, aside from the mess made during the filling process, nothing else was found.

Gemachte Arbeiten: Erneut befuellt, jetzt soll ich in der kommenden Woche wiederkommen und inzwischen die Anlage reichlich laufen lassen, solange sie keine Geraeusche macht.

I'm not sure how to feel about that...

Rüdi wrote:

dieselmartin wrote: Does R134a always contain a UV dye? Or is it only added later, when there is a suspicion? m; Hi. "Unfortunately, many workshops that lack the expertise to perform proper leak tests are filling this stuff, and I'd say that roughly 90% of all workshops in the automotive sector fall into that category." Professionally, leak tests are performed using a mixture of nitrogen and refrigerant. Initially, a rough leak check is conducted using a foam test with leak detection spray or a mixture of dish soap and water. If no leaks are found this way, an electronic leak detector is used. Best regards, Rüdi

Unfortunately, most workshops don't have the same capabilities as specialists in air conditioning systems.


@Hatdriver
Great to hear that your system is working again. However, it's a good idea to install a new dryer after opening the refrigerant circuit.

Does the Peugeot still have an older air conditioning system with a magnetic clutch on the compressor?
Or perhaps it already has an internal mechanism that adjusts the swashplate.

*dust blower*

The air conditioning in my 2006 Ibiza 6L has, since I bought it in 2009, only been used for a maximum of about 3 hours per year during the peak of summer.
A few days ago, just as the heatwave started, the cooling performance dropped significantly, so I took it to the air conditioning service.

Refrigerant charge: 550 +/- 25 grams. Approximately 190 grams were evacuated.
In March 2010, during a "suspicion-based" service, 620 grams were extracted and then replenished.
According to this, the system has lost 430 grams of refrigerant in just over 5 years, which is approximately 82 grams per year.
After refilling with 580 grams of refrigerant, the AC is working again with good cooling performance, feeling similar to the "new" Polo from 2013.

"While the Ibiza is now being sold, I'm still curious about the Polo: Would the refrigerant loss have been lower with more frequent AC use, and if so, why?"

Due to "dry" seals and micro-leaks, especially when the air conditioning system is rarely used, because the refrigerant oil not only lubricates the compressor but also seals the seals and micro-leaks. Therefore, it is recommended to run the system for at least 5 minutes once a month to ensure the oil is properly distributed.
A car's air conditioning system is never 100% airtight, unlike a hermetically sealed cooling circuit in a refrigerator. In the Polo/Ibiza, the hose near the dryer, on the right-hand side in the direction of travel, is often slightly leaky. You'll often see traces of refrigerant oil there – just take a look!
Often, the climate condenser can also corrode due to impacts from rocks or exposure to saltwater.

Supposedly, it's because the fluid needs to circulate to keep the system sealed.

Regarding the Peugeot 206 from that time: The system, of course, didn't seal properly. The cause of the problem was identified as a leak in the heater/radiator unit inside the car. The vehicle's floor was UV-reactive from the condensation drain. The repair would have required extensive disassembly, including the removal of two airbags, which I declined.

The Suzuki Ignis received its first air conditioning service in the fall of 2014 - after 11 years. The dryer cartridge was replaced, and the system was refilled to the correct pressure. Approximately 1/3 of the refrigerant was still inside, and apart from some gurgling noises after turning off the air conditioning, there were no noticeable issues. However, I noticed that the performance was lacking when the refilled system was put back into operation. If you're not careful, it can give you cold fingers!

The disadvantage is that the 1.3 16V engine has to work very hard on the system, and in addition to the increased idle speed, it also performs noticeably worse. In the city, with frequent stops and starts at traffic lights, this significantly increases fuel consumption. According to the Scangauge II, the engine consumes approximately 0.7 - 0.9 liters per hour at idle without the air conditioning on, and 3 - 3.6 liters per hour with the air conditioning running.

The Smart doesn't have them anymore, and those things are also impossible to get perfectly sealed. Besides, it puts even more strain on the small engine. In any case, it's pointless to try and fix the air conditioning systems of the 450 models, as they are considered a design flaw.

T3Surfer wrote:

Due to "dry" seals and micro-leaks, especially when the air conditioning system is rarely used, because the refrigerant oil not only lubricates the compressor but also seals the seals and micro-leaks. Therefore, it is recommended to run the system for at least 5 minutes once a month to ensure the oil is properly distributed.

OK... but what about the continuously running, load-controlled compressors like those in my cars, whose flow rate (supposedly) cannot be reduced all the way to zero?
Should they be run regularly under load, or is the constant minimal flow through the system sufficient to keep them in good working order?

Quote:

In the Polo/Ibi, the hose near the dryer is often slightly leaky on the right side in the direction of travel, and you often see traces of refrigerant oil there - just take a look!

Okay, if it's less hot in the daylight.

Quote:

Often, the climate condenser is also corroded by impacts from stones or saltwater.

Then, however, in my opinion, the refrigerant should be lost more quickly than it was in 6 years?

Refrigerant loss in every air conditioning system... that's normal!

http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/archiv/jede-autoklimaanlage-verliert-schaedliches-kaeltemittel--ausgerechnet-kohlendioxid-soll-das-problem-nun-loesen-ein-treibhausgas-als-klimaretter,10810590,10202172.html

Bertil wrote:

Refrigerant loss in every air conditioning system... that's normal!

I understand that. But I want to know to what extent I can slow down the refrigerant loss in my Polo through regular AC use.