| Author |
Message |
teileklaus Schrauber


Joined: 12/30/2006 Posts: 2643 Karma: +12 / -0 Location: Obrigheim 2005 Volkswagen Premium Support
|
24-08-2014, 21:48 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
Hallo heute Abend habe ich Logfahrten mit einem neuen Bosch LMM versuchsweise gemacht: (Touran 2005)Alles gut, die Luftmasse ist höher aber das Laufverhalten nur wenig besser. Whatever.
I only plugged in the LMM temporarily, started VCDS with just the ignition on and the engine off, then reinstalled the other LMM. Suddenly, the starter motor stopped working. I noticed the key symbol appeared on the instrument cluster. After a few tries, there were no error codes for the immobilizer, but the "Engine Start" area (section 5) couldn't be accessed. I suspect that by leaving it plugged in within the MSTG (Modular Software Transport Gateway), the starter motor has been locked.
Luckily, I was able to have it towed and drive it home, but it still won't start.
What can I do?
Best regards, Klaus.
Gruß, der Teileklaus
Touran 2017 DFG SCR 2,0, 150 PS Schalt
Fiat 500, Einkaufswagen
R1240R BIG Bore Tuningkuh, 142 NM
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:39.
|
|
| Back to top |
Profile PM Email Garage |
 |
Herbert Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 06/22/2005 Posts: 4606 Karma: +1325 / -0
Premium Support
|
24-08-2014, 22:12 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
Have you tried the spare key yet?
hg
Herbert.
Horch A4 8K CJCD
Golf 7 DDYA
(+ Audi 80 Avant B4 1Z 475Tkm - habe ich vom ersten bis zum letzten Tag gerne gefahren)
(+ Passat Variant 32B CY 400Tkm)
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:40.
|
|
| Back to top |
Profile PM |
 |
teileklaus Schrauber


Joined: 12/30/2006 Posts: 2643 Karma: +12 / -0 Location: Obrigheim 2005 Volkswagen Premium Support
|
24-08-2014, 22:17 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
No, you idiot, I was just thinking about WFS and access/start permissions...
I'll try that right away.
Edit: Still not working, no starter motor issues. Thanks, Herbert, for being kind to me.
I'm also unable to access the system; it seems I need a login code, probably within the AI system. Oh dear, I suspect I might have to call Volkswagen tomorrow so they can inquire about the code over the phone... or is there anything else I can try?
As a supplement to the turn signal switches I replaced yesterday due to the faulty GRA (Gear Range Actuator), could the airbag steering module located under the steering wheel be related? Could a connector have come loose there?
| Description: |
| hier mal der Fehlerspeicher ohne Eintrag der WFS |
|
 Download |
| File name: |
Log-MOS-N551-Fehlercode Kein Start möglich.txt |
| File size: |
10.69 KB |
| Downloaded: |
1277 times |
Gruß, der Teileklaus
Touran 2017 DFG SCR 2,0, 150 PS Schalt
Fiat 500, Einkaufswagen
R1240R BIG Bore Tuningkuh, 142 NM
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:41.
|
|
| Back to top |
Profile PM Email Garage |
 |
mullemaus Guest
Free account, no CAN development support
|
24-08-2014, 22:35 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
The login code cannot be requested by phone.
Disconnect the battery for about 30 minutes.  It might help.
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:43.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
teileklaus Schrauber


Joined: 12/30/2006 Posts: 2643 Karma: +12 / -0 Location: Obrigheim 2005 Volkswagen Premium Support
|
24-08-2014, 22:39 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
Thanks, Mulle. I already got the size 10 key, but I didn't think it would work, so I discarded it. But now I'm going to try it again and see what happens.
"It's strange that the LWR (automatic headlight leveling) error appeared even when reading the diagnostics on the turbo model. I thought that feature was only available with xenon headlights, but I don't have xenon headlights, so why would that error be present?"
Just briefly disconnecting it doesn't work; now I'm going to leave it without power overnight.
But I'm afraid that won't help.
Okay, so I'm having a problem: I can't get into the car even though the key is recognized. The engine starts if I push it, but the starter motor isn't working. Why is that?
If it weren't for the key symbol, I would suspect a faulty ignition switch or starter motor. But that would be too mechanical; it has to be something digital  .
Gruß, der Teileklaus
Touran 2017 DFG SCR 2,0, 150 PS Schalt
Fiat 500, Einkaufswagen
R1240R BIG Bore Tuningkuh, 142 NM
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:44.
|
|
| Back to top |
Profile PM Email Garage |
 |
Herbert Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 06/22/2005 Posts: 4606 Karma: +1325 / -0
Premium Support
|
25-08-2014, 8:13 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
If the keys are not being recognized, it's probably more related to the environment around the ignition switch. You were in that area (turn signal switch, glow plug relay, control unit under the steering wheel). Replacing the mass airflow sensor shouldn't have anything to do with this.
The MSG isn't actually locked by the WFS, otherwise it wouldn't be possible to engage it (with the key inserted and ignition on).
Okay, let's double-check the connections under the steering wheel.
Do you have a previous car scan for comparison?
hg
Herbert.
Horch A4 8K CJCD
Golf 7 DDYA
(+ Audi 80 Avant B4 1Z 475Tkm - habe ich vom ersten bis zum letzten Tag gerne gefahren)
(+ Passat Variant 32B CY 400Tkm)
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:46.
|
|
| Back to top |
Profile PM |
 |
teileklaus Schrauber


Joined: 12/30/2006 Posts: 2643 Karma: +12 / -0 Location: Obrigheim 2005 Volkswagen Premium Support
|
25-08-2014, 8:24 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
Hi Herbert, I just reconnected the battery. It started once on the second attempt. All the symbols lit up, of course the clock was reset to zero. I drove it for a short distance, then all the lights went off by themselves, including the airbag light. After restarting, the key symbol reappeared, but it's not possible to start the engine. Before this, I only used the diagnostic tool to read the boost pressures.
But tonight, I need to check again to see if there's an older scan available.
Thanks in advance, Best regards, Klaus.
Gruß, der Teileklaus
Touran 2017 DFG SCR 2,0, 150 PS Schalt
Fiat 500, Einkaufswagen
R1240R BIG Bore Tuningkuh, 142 NM
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:48.
|
|
| Back to top |
Profile PM Email Garage |
 |
teileklaus Schrauber


Joined: 12/30/2006 Posts: 2643 Karma: +12 / -0 Location: Obrigheim 2005 Volkswagen Premium Support
|
25-08-2014, 8:31 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
"Just realized that I only loosened the control module under the steering wheel a bit. There's a tiny screw in the front, and then I used a Torx T10 to release the inner bracket. I had to bend it slightly to get the switch out. Maybe there's still a connector on the back that came loose because of that?"
So, let's try opening it again; that might be the solution.
Gruß, der Teileklaus
Touran 2017 DFG SCR 2,0, 150 PS Schalt
Fiat 500, Einkaufswagen
R1240R BIG Bore Tuningkuh, 142 NM
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:49.
|
|
| Back to top |
Profile PM Email Garage |
 |
TDI-GTI-4-Motion Profi-Schrauber


Joined: 02/22/2009 Posts: 3865 Karma: +127 / -0
2002 Volkswagen Golf  Premium Support
|
25-08-2014, 9:03 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
The WFS is definitely not the problem, as long as you can get it started.
Wäre es bisschen simpel, wenn man sie so überlisten könnte, gell?
It seems like nothing is getting through to the starter motor's terminal 50, or the starter motor itself is faulty.
MfG. Michael
VW Golf IV TDI GTI 4-Motion Bj.2002 MKB/GKB: ARL/FEK
VW T4 Pritsche TDI Bj.1999 MKB/GKB: AXG/AFK (Selfmade)
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:49.
|
|
| Back to top |
Profile PM Garage |
 |
teileklaus Schrauber


Joined: 12/30/2006 Posts: 2643 Karma: +12 / -0 Location: Obrigheim 2005 Volkswagen Premium Support
|
25-08-2014, 9:14 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
Hallo Michael, klar das hatte ich ja nicht erwartet, nur mir ist der Unterschied zwischen der WFS die ja offensichtlich nicht aktiviert auch auslesbar fehlerfrei und der Zugangsberechtigung/ Startberechtigung MWB 05 nicht ganz klar. Wenn sich da ein Stecker teilweise gelöst hätte würde es fehlende Kommunikation mit dem KI bedeuten und vl deswegen komme ich nicht zum 05 er Bereich rein. NaOnce it got started and running, I was actually convinced of the quality of the WFS.
Even though the key switch symbol is lit, it does start sometimes. It also starts when you crank it.
I'm convinced that terminal 50 isn't receiving power; there's no way the starter motor would be faulty one day and working perfectly the next, then faulty again – it doesn't make sense.
Gruß, der Teileklaus
Touran 2017 DFG SCR 2,0, 150 PS Schalt
Fiat 500, Einkaufswagen
R1240R BIG Bore Tuningkuh, 142 NM
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:50.
|
|
| Back to top |
Profile PM Email Garage |
 |
mullemaus Guest
Free account, no CAN development support
|
25-08-2014, 10:25 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
By pressing it down, you are releasing the steering column control unit. This can cause one or more pins to lose proper contact.
Also Verkleidung ab, alles noch einmal kontrollieren.
If in doubt, disassemble everything; sometimes a pin is bent. I've seen it all before. 
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:51.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
teileklaus Schrauber


Joined: 12/30/2006 Posts: 2643 Karma: +12 / -0 Location: Obrigheim 2005 Volkswagen Premium Support
|
25-08-2014, 10:37 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
Okay, I'll tackle that. Besides the Torx-screwable bracket, I didn't see any other fasteners, and it wasn't easy to remove from below, so I left it in place and was able to access the connector for the turn signal switch behind it without any issues. So, I thought, why disassemble it further?
Hopefully, that's it.
Gruß, der Teileklaus
Touran 2017 DFG SCR 2,0, 150 PS Schalt
Fiat 500, Einkaufswagen
R1240R BIG Bore Tuningkuh, 142 NM
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:52.
|
|
| Back to top |
Profile PM Email Garage |
 |
Herbert Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 06/22/2005 Posts: 4606 Karma: +1325 / -0
Premium Support
|
25-08-2014, 18:38 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
For me, the yellow or red light with the symbol of a key and a lock indicates that the ignition switch is defective. So, it's not a lock activated by the vehicle security system (WFS).
Check your clever book to see if it says the same thing.
hg
Herbert.
Horch A4 8K CJCD
Golf 7 DDYA
(+ Audi 80 Avant B4 1Z 475Tkm - habe ich vom ersten bis zum letzten Tag gerne gefahren)
(+ Passat Variant 32B CY 400Tkm)
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:53.
|
|
| Back to top |
Profile PM |
 |
teileklaus Schrauber


Joined: 12/30/2006 Posts: 2643 Karma: +12 / -0 Location: Obrigheim 2005 Volkswagen Premium Support
|
25-08-2014, 20:21 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
Hi, I just checked everything and it seems like nothing is loose, although you can tighten the connectors a bit.
Now I've figured out that when you turn the ignition to "On," the key symbol probably needs to light up for 3 seconds first, just like the other symbols that appear and then go off. As long as the key symbol was yellow, only one start attempt was possible. Trying to restart continuously in one go wasn't successful.
If I turned the key only after the key symbol disappeared, the starter would engage. However, the airbag light was still on, first red and then yellow, and the coil needed to be calibrated.
After the initial test drive and after the steering coil was depleted, starting the vehicle was always possible.
I mean, the key symbol was never visible before when the ignition was on, although maybe I just never consciously noticed it. In any case, you never had to wait for that indicator to go out before starting the engine.
The owner's manual describes the interior monitoring/anti-theft system, but I don't have this switch on the B-pillar.
When the WFS is activated, the key should blink, but it's not blinking for me.
Okay, tomorrow I'll reassemble everything and test to see if it works like it does today, or if we have to wait until the key indicator light goes out. I'll also run the diagnostic tool again to check if I can get the "05 authorization" and if any error codes are stored. Interestingly, the LWR (Low Beam Range) was active today even though there's no xenon headlight installed.
Gruß, der Teileklaus
Touran 2017 DFG SCR 2,0, 150 PS Schalt
Fiat 500, Einkaufswagen
R1240R BIG Bore Tuningkuh, 142 NM
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:55.
|
|
| Back to top |
Profile PM Email Garage |
 |
Herbert Profi-Schrauber

Joined: 06/22/2005 Posts: 4606 Karma: +1325 / -0
Premium Support
|
25-08-2014, 21:07 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
This shows that...
- with the connection between the ignition switch and the control unit behind it, or with one of the ends of that connection.
- and the same applies to the connection with the airbag control unit.
And you worked specifically on those interfaces.
hg
Herbert.
Horch A4 8K CJCD
Golf 7 DDYA
(+ Audi 80 Avant B4 1Z 475Tkm - habe ich vom ersten bis zum letzten Tag gerne gefahren)
(+ Passat Variant 32B CY 400Tkm)
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:58.
|
|
| Back to top |
Profile PM |
 |
teileklaus Schrauber


Joined: 12/30/2006 Posts: 2643 Karma: +12 / -0 Location: Obrigheim 2005 Volkswagen Premium Support
|
25-08-2014, 21:39 Subject: Car symbol with key inside |
Quote |
|
Okay Herbert, I'll try to completely remove the control unit located under the steering column to inspect the pins. The only connector I removed was the one for the airbag; it clicks into place. I examined those pins, and they all appear to be straight.
I'll take care of the turn signal switch and steering lock tomorrow.
I hope that the plate, which is visible from the outside of the STG (presumably a machine or device), isn't internally broken in some way, but I didn't force it or use excessive force.
In addition to the other wires, there are two thin black wires that run separately and are hidden on the right side, leading to the ignition switch.
Gruß, der Teileklaus
Touran 2017 DFG SCR 2,0, 150 PS Schalt
Fiat 500, Einkaufswagen
R1240R BIG Bore Tuningkuh, 142 NM
Translated on 14-07-2026, 23:59.
|
|
| Back to top |
Profile PM Email Garage |
 |
|