An Endless Topic: Choosing the Right Engine Oil

Hello everyone,
Today, at 135,000 km, I performed an oil change. Because I had to have the last two inspections done by the dealer due to lack of time, a 0W-30 oil from Veedol was put in my engine during the last 30,000 km. Even when I specifically asked, the dealer told me that this was the only (expensive) type available, period.
Recently, I downloaded some PDF documents about the oils from various manufacturers and was quite concerned to find out that my engine had been running for 30,000 km with such a thin lubricant.

Very important: My TDI is a 1997 model, and the specified oil standard is 50500 (1/97).

In cold weather conditions, even at temperatures as low as -20°C, this viscosity grade performs exceptionally well because the engine is lubricated very quickly.
However, shortly after reaching operating temperature, even in winter, I am no longer convinced by this oil. Due to the significantly lower high-temperature viscosity, the load-carrying capacity and thus the stability of the lubricating film decreases so much that I am concerned about the wear protection of the engine.
Besonders, wenn ich meine Fahrweise ins Spiel bringe. Auf der Autobahn kann ich meinen Gasfuß (bei warmem Triebwerk) nur schwer zügeln. Da muss der Motor schon mal ein ganzes Stück Dauervollgas aushalten. Genau in dieser Situation ist aber IMO das Öl der Viskositätsklasse 0W-30 völlig überfordert, denn die Motoröltemperatur klettert bei einer solchen Behandlung schon mal gerne auf über 130°C. Dann liegt die Viskosität dieses Motoröls nur noch auf dem Niveau von Dieselkraftstoff. Eine haaA shocking realization for me.
Things get even worse with extremely high summer temperatures when operating at low speeds under heavy load. A thin lubricating film is then subjected to excessive stress, and increased wear becomes a risk.

Therefore, I have switched back to fully synthetic oil with a viscosity grade of 5W-40 today in order to have significantly more reserves regarding the load-carrying capacity of the lubricating film at high oil temperatures.
I have the impression that the engine runs a bit more smoothly since it was filled with 5W-40 oil (it might also just be my imagination).
I decided not to switch to 0W-40 for cost reasons. I believe that the low-temperature viscosity of 5W is sufficient for our climate.

Proponents of 0W-30 oil will now argue that the lower viscosity reduces viscous friction losses in the bearings, and the engine consumes less fuel. This is certainly true, but premature engine damage due to insufficient lubrication is significantly more expensive than a few liters of diesel per year.

Diese Ausführungen beziehen sich lediglich auf die älteren Konstruktionen. Die neuen Motoren mit WIV sind kontruktiv anders ausgelegt. Dort wurden die Lagerdimensionen auf das dünnflüssige Öl abgestimmt, so dass hier keine Gefahr bestehen sollte. Allerdings muss ein dersrtiges Lager nach meinem Wissen eine größere Oberfläche besitzen (größerer Lagerzapfendurchmesser und/oder größere axiale Länge), um die gleiche Belastung mit niedrigviskoserem Öl aufzunehmen. Damit wiThe advantage of reduced viscous friction losses is partially offset by other factors.
I find this development very questionable because it leads to an increasing degree of specialization in lubricants. This results in a growing number of oil standards and oil derivatives. It creates a complex and opaque system for the average person, which poses risks when refilling oil.
Furthermore, the price spiral continues to rise because, on the one hand, quality requirements are increasing, and on the other hand, the quantity purchased per quality level is decreasing.

Regards,
Alex.

Hi Alex!

I would like to share some of my experiences with you.

1990 habe ich einen Jahreswagen Audi 200/20V mit mir unbekanntem Chiptuning gekauft (2,2 liter Hubraum, Serie 220 PS, nach Chiptuning unbekannte, aber reichlich mehr Leistung, max. Drehzahl 7.000 U/min und ein Drehmoment, was schlussendlich meine Kardanwelle und mein Getriebe zerstört hat). Seit etwa 1992, als das 0W30er Öl rauskam, habe ich nur noch dieses Öl gefahren und nie was anderes reingefüllt. VerI bought this car when it was 10 years old with a mileage of 487,000 km!
The machine was still fully functional and had never been defective. Even after that amount of use, I didn't hold back and always pushed it hard whenever the opportunity arose.
The engine was never opened, and there were no externally visible signs of wear. The compression was measured at 450,000 kilometers and was within the acceptable range, as were the oil consumption and performance.
Based on my experience, I can only say good things about 0W30 oil. Back then, my maximum oil temperatures were around 140 to 150 degrees Celsius, and that was with technology from 10 years ago.
Nothing other than what's already in it is going into my engine now.

Best regards,
Uwe

Okay... well. In my 1998 ALH engine, the people at VW once filled it with 0W-40 oil. According to the specifications for that engine, that wasn't actually allowed.
Ultimately, I drove the engine for another 20,000 km, experienced excessive oil consumption, and eventually had a piston failure.
I suspect that the loader was forcing too much oil through, which then had to be compressed once in a cylinder -> resulting in a breakage.

My current AWX also uses 0W-30 50601 oil, and I'm quite critical about it, but so far it's not consuming any. *knocks on wood*
My replacement ALH engine always used 5W-40 oil, and it never consumed any oil until almost 160,000 km.

Mainly, I prefer fully synthetic oil, but whether it's a 10W-40 or something else, I don't think the engine really cares.

Hello.

I've been using this 0W-30 oil for 100 kilometers now. I don't think it's a problem for diesel engines in our region. The oil consumption is slightly higher, currently around 0.3 liters per 1000 kilometers.
Most of that will likely be lost in the turbocharger with 150,000 km on it. For gasoline engines with their much higher temperatures, it might be more of a problem.

In winter conditions, especially during cold starts and the first few kilometers driven, there is a significant difference.

If a turbo loses so much oil that the piston eventually tries to compress it, then it's not an issue with the oil itself.

So, your thoughts about the oil are not entirely correct.
The unparalleled cold start performance of the 0W-30 oil is undeniable.
However, the oil behaves differently at high temperatures than one might expect.
With the help of state-of-the-art viscosity improvers, the oil temperature remains stable, and thanks to special...
This oil forms a lattice structure when subjected to pressure, resulting in an above-average performance.
thick oil film.

I've been using SLX 0W-30 oil for 40,000 km and I've tuned my TDI engine from 90 to 130 horsepower.
Improved cold start performance, especially in winter, smoother engine running, lower fuel consumption, and better turbo response. I have now increased my oil change interval from 15,000 to 20,000 km.
I will not use any other oil in this car.

Hello Tagessuppe,

Certainly, significant efforts were made during the development of 0W-30 oils to prevent an excessive decrease in hot viscosity.
However, the fact is that the oil viscosity of 0W-30 is significantly lower than that of 5W-40 at 150°C. This means that the lubricating film of 5W-40 has a higher load-carrying capacity.

Another point is that the long-chain molecules responsible for maintaining high-temperature viscosity break down and are consumed as the oil ages.
This means that if the oil change intervals are extended with 0W-30 oil, the hot viscosity will continue to decrease. Therefore, I would be cautious about extending the interval in your situation.

Regards,
Alex.

@donalexo:

Aren't it precisely the PD oils that offer a REDUCED high-temperature viscosity (HTHS 3.0)?
See here: http://www.castrol.de/produkte/a_auto/a_motorenoele/e_topup.html and
http://www.castrol.de/schmierstoffe/3_viskositaeten/viskositaeten_3.html

How does that all fit together? In a positive displacement (PD) system, the pressure on the driving pistons of the PD elements must be extremely high. Therefore, I believe the HTHS (high-temperature/high-shear viscosity) should actually be increased beyond the usual range to prevent the lubricating film from breaking down...

Please provide clarification.

hi,
Right now, I'm very confused.
Is this excellent 0W30 VW50600/601 oil better or worse than other oils?
But then why is it still so expensive if it's supposedly worse?
or is it only about the fact that it's worse for older cars?
Since my car (presumably a Porsche 911) requires 506.00 oil, I can assume that it's probably better for the engine than using 5W-40 oil, right?
greetings

Sound Lupo 3L wrote:

hi, Since my car (presumably a Porsche 911) requires 506.00 oil, I can assume that it's probably better for the engine than using 5W-40 oil, right? greetings

There was a thread about this topic here not long ago (with a lengthy text).
The specified 0W30 oil is definitely necessary to meet the 3L requirement.

hi,

I use 5W30 oil in my AFN engine, which now has 118,000 km on it. It works great, and I think it's the right choice. Whether or not VW/Seat specifies it doesn't really matter to me, because different manufacturers (like Castrol or Shell) have completely different specifications anyway!

According to the VW standard!!!! for my diesel engine, I should use oil with the specification 505.00 *g*.

Is that a Von Schell 5W40?
Castrol 0W30.
and from Dea, a 10W40 [oil].

Which one? So, a 5W30 from BMW Longlife.

'My oil temperature on the highway, even after driving 50 km at full throttle, is at 122 degrees Fahrenheit; it doesn't go higher than that, which is good. That's exactly the right temperature range for a diesel engine, somewhere between 90 and 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Gasoline engines are completely different; they run hotter and reach higher temperatures.'

If my oil consumption increases at some point (which it unfortunately is doing right now).
I will be switching to 10W40 oil.

hi,
Here's an excerpt from the internet about engine oil basics:
'VW Standards 50200 and 50500: For conventional gasoline and diesel engines. We recommend: Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30.'
VW Standards 50300 and 50600: Vehicles with approved extended maintenance intervals (excluding, for example, PD engines). We recommend: Shell Helix Ultra X.
VW Standard 505.01: Pump-nozzle engine vehicle without extended maintenance interval. We recommend: Shell 505.01.
VW Standard 50301: Various gasoline turbo engines.
VW Standard 50601: Pump-nozzle vehicles with approved extended maintenance intervals.

It seems that...
Is this part number 50501 suitable for PD engines without a wastegate integrated valve?
'The part number 50600 is for vehicles with a WIV (Warm Idle Valve) but not with a PD (Pump Denoise).'
50601 for PD with WIV.
The 3L is a direct injection (PD) engine without variable valve timing (VVT), but the owner's manual specifies 50600 as the recommended maintenance interval.
What is correct then? Could it be because the 50601 didn't exist yet when the 3L came out?
Should I drive on route 50601 as a precaution?
Can I still use the 50600?
greetings

What is correct then? Could it be because the 50601 didn't exist yet when the 3L came out?
Should I drive on route 50601 as a precaution?
Can I still use the 50600?
greetings

Hello,

'The engine of the VW Lupo 1.2 TDI (a 3-liter car with engine codes ANY and AYZ) still requires oil that meets the specifications of either 506.00 or 506.01.'

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

'Source: autoservicepraxis.de'

Regards,

Tobias.

Hi,

soweit mir bekannt ist, ist für den 3L-Lupo (ANY u. AYZ)

"Without the 'Longlife' option, a combination product consisting of items (50300+50600) is permitted, or alternatively, a combination product consisting of items (50300+50600+50601) is allowed."
MIT Longlife now only offers the combined oil (50300+50600+50601).

As stated in the release notes (although it's no longer displayed there currently because the entire path has been deleted), I saved the list as a .tif file a few weeks ago. If you want it, please send me a private message with your email address.

Hello,

Interestingly, the A2 1.2 TDI requires specification 506 01 (and not alternatively 506 00). In an older listing, I read that the 3L Lupo, even though it is not integrated into the WIV system, requires oil according to specification 506 01. I would say that using 506 01 will keep you on the safe side.

Regards,

Tobias.