Which Chip? Find Out Now!

MTM (www.mtm-online.de) offers the following for the V6 TD1 110 KW:
- 180 hp, 405 Nm

*** (www.der-***.de) offers a performance upgrade for the V6 TDI engine, increasing its power to 110 kW.
- 180 horsepower, 360 Nm of torque.



Why is there such a significant difference? According to my information, *** is recognized by Audi, which means that if there are any problems, warranty claims should not be an issue! How is it with MTM?

Forget about both of them!
I live in Lenting. MTM is located about 5 km away. From various sources, I know that the so-called 'great' MTM has their chip tuning done by Hohenester. Since many people in the Ingolstadt area naturally go to MTM, I can also report on many experiences, such as how MTM doesn't care about its customers at all. For them, you're just one of many, and you're treated like you're on an assembly line. Furthermore, the performance and lifespan of MTM cars that have been chip-tuned are more than poor! If you ever have a problem with your car that definitely results from the tuning, and you go to MTM, you'll get the following response: 'WELL, THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM, TOO BAD FOR YOU.'
AND GOODBYE!!!

Oops, this is the first negative opinion I've heard about MTM!

Well, my post was mainly about the differences in torque and the manufacturer's warranty and goodwill.

When it comes to chip tuning for diesel engines, MTM is definitely not a good choice!
Firstly, MTM specializes primarily in basic tuning modifications (such as camshafts, turbochargers, crankshafts, and intake manifolds).
When it comes to topics like S2, S3, or S4 models, MTM is the best place to go because they work closely with Audi's developers. That's why MTM is also able to offer an RS6 tuning package now, as they are among the first to receive the vehicle. However, this doesn't necessarily mean they are a good tuner for diesel engines. In some cases, their chip tuning work is very poor, which is evident in extreme exhaust emissions and very high fuel consumption.
The Oberscheid company, on the other hand, has years of experience in the diesel sector and is therefore a more reliable alternative. They offer a 1-year warranty on the engine and transmission!!! Does MTM offer the same??? --------->> NO. They don't know the limits of each machine and therefore don't want to take any risks. This suggests that MTM doesn't have the same experience and trust as OCT!

Besides, I don't quite understand your reasoning, MTM; of course, they are also 'messing around' with the identification fields, see !!!http://www.mtmonline.de/Golf/g_136.htm

I would be cautious about relying too heavily on Mr. Oberscheider's long-standing experience.

He got that from MTH in Hanau. He used to buy his chips there, and then, after learning enough, he became independent and started developing his own products. Of course, that's also a kind of experience, but a rather questionable one.

It's true that MTM has clear advantages over other providers when it comes to engine control units (ECUs) like the ME7.x series. However, this is because it's significantly more challenging to tune a vehicle with such an ECU compared to a TDI ECU. The difference is like night and day. With a diesel engine, it's enough to determine the increased fuel injection amount based on three parameters (torque, knocking, driving behavior), and to adjust the possible increase in air mass based on two other parameters, depending on the turbocharger, by adjusting the boost pressure. Some people are still practicing with the fuel injection start map. And that's essentially it, with clear dependencies that greatly simplify the 'manual tuning' process. You don't even need a development environment for the ME7.x.

The issue with the warranty shouldn't be overemphasized. At MTM, there has never been any damage caused by an increase in diesel power. Perhaps that's why they believe something like that is unnecessary.

On the other hand, it's possible that Oberscheider isn't entirely confident in his own position and that his company has reinsured its business through a third party.

I'm familiar with the test, and I don't put much stock in it. The results can never truly reflect reality due to the inherent measurement variations. Furthermore, it always depends on who is doing the measuring at that particular time.

Something completely different emerged during the MTM testing, and I believe the measurements are more reliable because I know how they were taken.

When it comes to evaluating what a tuner can (or rather, cannot) do, performance measurements are actually secondary. What's crucial is *how* they achieve those results. Sometimes, the chips from Oberscheider contain complete nonsense. They make blanket changes to the engine maps, even if those changes are negated by the limiting effect of another parameter, or simply don't come into play at all. This clearly indicates that the person involved doesn't understand the underlying principles, at least in part. The main thing is that the performance is right.

The fact that you can be successful with it is shown by your unwavering support.

STOP!!!!!!! I didn't want to start a war between MTM and Oberscheider here! I just wanted to know why there are such differences in torque and who at *** or MTM has experience with their V6 TDI models and what their experiences are like! Also, I wanted to know what Audi's policy is regarding warranty claims if something breaks and a chip from one of these two companies is installed! Thanks again to everyone who contributes to THIS topic!

m

Hello Merlin,

There are numerous instructions from VAG (Volkswagen Group) that stipulate rejecting any cost claims if there is a justified suspicion of tuning. In the event of damage, you must then refer to the respective tuner.

@audifan

Are you saying that you have absolutely no information about a test conducted by Stiftung Warentest?
YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE THE TRUTH IN THE EYE. It depends on who's doing the measuring??? LOL. The cars were on a test bench that clearly showed that MTM doesn't even come close to delivering the claimed performance!!! The fact is, MTM is a fraud, plain and simple. And people like you are the ones who run to MTM and blindly trust them. You probably drive a chip-tuned 'RUSSKISTE' (a derogatory term for a Russian car) from MTM and constantly tell yourself: 'MTM IS THE BEST!!!' Furthermore, I'm convinced because I personally had my chip tuning done by Herr Oberscheider in Austria and talked to him about it. He's an extremely competent and friendly man who treats you like a friend. GO TALK TO Herr Mayer about the Stiftung Warentest (consumer testing organization) issue! He'll tell you: 'IT'S ALL A LIE, WE'RE THE BEST, STIFTUNG WARENTEST IS LYING.' You think that when you take a car to MTM, Herr Mayer himself personally works on it? Some mechanic with zero knowledge is sitting in front of the software, just running a script according to a template. And you claim that OCT has no idea what they're writing? Do you know the source code of the engine control unit, or are you a psychic? How can they be a test winner if they don't know what they're doing? I claim that even if a butcher offered chip tuning for diesels, they would be better than MTM. Look at the test, MTM is WAY down at the bottom. Is that a coincidence, or are people just brainwashed?

Put the frame around the test and place it under your pillow!

At mtm, it's not Mr. Mayr who's responsible, but Mr. Link, and he certainly doesn't put any scripts in there.

'Of course, I have binary files from Oberscheider; otherwise, I wouldn't be able to assess them. Unlike you, I don't rely on hearsay. (How can you even judge whether what Oberscheider provided is actually competent, or did he just tell you what you wanted to hear?) '

Furthermore, the proof of Mr. Oberscheider's competence is actually in your tax records. Just read them, and I'll gladly point out the places where the nonsense is.

Hello,

As far as I know, the discussion is about the pros and cons of different tuning chips. It involves pure speculation, personal attacks, and verbal assaults.
They definitely don't belong here.
Please return to a reasonable and respectful way of discussing things.

Hello,

As far as I know, the discussion is about the pros and cons of different tuning chips. It involves pure speculation, personal attacks, and verbal assaults.
They definitely don't belong here.
Please return to a reasonable way of discussing things.

'Those who read have an advantage.'

I haven't suspected anything or attacked anyone so far! Surely, one is still allowed to write down what is true. If this forum isn't meant for exchanging opinions and views, or correcting misguided statements, then it doesn't deserve its name.

I object to the fact that something is falsely portrayed as 'mtm' (presumably a specific term or product), while on the other hand, 'Oberscheider' (another term or product) is praised excessively, and this is coming from someone who clearly doesn't understand the subject matter very well. Or are there specific rules here that don't allow for a certain degree of openness?

Check out the AudiFREAK!!!
He has such issues with MTM because he can't handle the truth! Unlike him, I rely on public sources like Stiftung Warentest! I could even claim to have the BIN files from MTM, and they would only contain garbage!
No matter what is written inside, as long as you deliver the performance with good fuel consumption and emissions, it doesn't matter what's in the ECU!!! Or does it matter to you what's in the ECU if your car runs perfectly???? Let alone what the customer thinks!!! Besides, I doubt that YOU } can judge how OCT codes its ECUs!!!

Hello,


@Animalking
"Could you please bring me the test report? I can't find the test in the table of contents of Stiftung Warentest's publications up to 1994!"
2. In the AutoBild , there was once a test (in which a truly awful, cheap tuning job ended up in the middle of the rankings, while MTM was far behind). But can this test be applied to the Audi V6 being discussed? - No, definitely not!!!
3. Many people are trying to modify the binary files that serve as the source, but I doubt it will achieve anything.
4. Reading out EEPROMs and modifying the characteristic maps is usually not a secret; it's just that you need to know where the limits are, and that requires lengthy and complex quality tests... Because if there's really garbage data in there (even with good performance and fuel consumption), you'll likely only damage the engine in the long run!
5. Tuning and good emissions are usually mutually exclusive (there may be exceptions - I am not aware of any in diesel engines).

@all

And now, please tone down your attacks and focus on civilian standards.

Hello,
It's interesting how such questions about the best tuner always evoke strong emotions. It seems everyone has their own experiences, and I believe these feelings are more driven by subjective preferences than by actual technical factors.

There aren't many tuners who truly understand all the relationships within the engine maps. Of course, with a bit of intuition, it's possible to achieve more power, but whether that can really be called 'optimization'...?

And I wouldn't consider the Nm values, which are always prominently displayed, as the ultimate criterion for determining the best tuner.
First, these are 'just' numbers, and second, I'm not sure if you would actually notice a difference if you had two cars (with different Nm values).

@ audifan
Are you a developer, or how can you claim that these files only contain junk?

solong
I would now like to announce my personal favorite.
tuneline.at.
Check out his website. It has a warranty, TÜV certification, switchable versions, and really good customer service!

Any questions?

With best regards from the world of motorsports.

Sure.

Hello,


@Animalking
'Could you please bring me the test report? I can't find the test in the table of contents of Stiftung Warentest's publications up to 1994!'


I also went to the trouble of looking for the test, but I couldn't find it either on the Warentest website or by searching on Google.

@Animalking

You could post the test (without the 'my tuner is better than yours' comments!!!!!!!), so that everyone can get an objective overview.

Best regards, Alex.