CLLB instead of CFFB in Sharan 7N

Hello everyone!

Some of you may have read the thread I started on the topic of "Oil Pressure Problem Sharan 7N". Unfortunately, the original engine, which is still installed, is severely damaged.
I have now acquired a replacement engine. This part has 70,000 km on it and comes with a warranty. Only drawback: It's a CLLB from a Passat (no major damage!).
I was skeptical about this from the beginning, but I was told by several people that CLLB and CFFB have the same engine block. It should also be noted that I received a turbo from a CFFB. This part has just under 30,000 km on it and looks relatively new. Also, including warranty.

In 1 Woche beginnt die Renovierung. I will assist my mechanic and, in particular, focus on the electrical components.

The whole process should proceed as follows:

1.) Expanding the damaged CFFB and visual inspection/comparison with the CLLB.

2.) If everything fits, I would recommend a new timing belt kit to the CLLB. Also, the timing belt seal and its associated plastic guide (which is supposedly supposed to break occasionally). The CLLB is 1 year older than the installed CFFB!

3.) Fuel Injection System: My mechanic sees things a bit differently than I do. He thinks we should keep the fuel injection system that's already on the CLLB. I'm skeptical about that. If I'm already removing the timing belt, I should also replace the pump - or? The fuel injection system on the CFFB was intact until the end. On the CLLB, it's a blind guess - if the engine has been sitting for a while, I have no idea if that's good for the fuel injection system. Furthermore, the injectors would need to be reprogrammed...

4.) The CLLB does not have an oil level sensor installed. Therefore, I will be renovating the oil pans.

5.) Intake system: I hope that the components here are identical - There are no plans for a rebuild.

6.) Crankshaft and Camshaft Sensors: Are there any specific considerations or differences to be aware of?

The remaining renovation should essentially be unremarkable. The clutch kit will be replaced with a new one, and the gearbox will receive new oil.

What do you think, are there any further aspects to consider in this project, or are there significant differences between the CFFB and the CLLB that could be problematic?

LG Manuel

Hi

I would only take over the engine from the donor car if I can be 100% certain that it is identical. Otherwise, I would only take over the engine block and cylinder head.

Even a small difference somewhere can cause problems, and finding that difference can become an endless story.

Keep us updated... perhaps even with pictures of the renovation... since you're a couple, that shouldn't be a problem.

As a lone tinkerer, I don't have time to waste on pictures...I want to finish my projects.

Have fun.

Hello Manuel,

significant differences between the two engines:

CFFB 103 KW, Compression ratio 16.5:1

CLLB 130 KW, Compression ratio 16:1

Drilling and lifting, as well as the number of valves, are the same.

The CLLB was installed in the Q3 Quattro models from 2011-2018. Great, if the engine has only 70,000 km on it.

In the Passat, it was not installed by the manufacturer. Perhaps the salesperson knows how he got in there.
The CLLA was installed in the Passat.
Do you have the VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) for the donor vehicle?

Your Austrian vehicle (7N) is equipped with an exhaust aftertreatment system, whether the CLLB is designed for this or the engine control unit, I don't know.

The engine control units between CFFB and CLLB are not identical.

There are three different types of engine control units for the CFFB.
With you, the part number 03L 906 018 HH is installed, and for the CLLB, the part number 03L 906 018 PJ is intended.

If you replace the engine with the engine from the CLLB, you will need to adjust the immobilizer. If you install the engine without the control unit, you need to make sure that the other components are compatible with the CFFB.

The engine cable harness appears to be the same.
It is also helpful to match the plug/pin configuration with the wiring diagram and the cable harness.

The turbochargers are different in the two engines. According to the parts catalog.

Turbo

CLLB 03L 253 010 F

CFFB 03L 253 010 G

High-pressure pumps and injectors, as well as NW-KW sensors, are all the same.

The CLLB motor has the same oil level sensor as the CFFB. If your CLLB doesn't have one, you should check why.

Unlike us, you have both engines at your disposal and can compare and research them thoroughly.


Have fun with the enjoyable work.

Best regards

Michael

@ I_Can_nix

Thank you very much for the detailed feedback!

Before we proceed with the large project, I would like to verify whether the storage trays used in the CFFB are original.

OEM Part Number for Rudder Bearing (Installed): 03L(105)701F
CZ V10
Color green

According to VW, parts 03L105701B and 03L105701C are installed. That of course doesn't mean anything.

Main Wave Bearing Housing OEM Part Number (Installed): 03L(105)591 Color: Red
Additional Marking: VW FM2; SCM Z4J D and a circular symbol (see image).

Furthermore, a picture of the oil pan. The remnants of the black sealant, including any overflow, are clearly visible. Is this the original?

Hello Manuel,

The fact is, the oil pan was already removed, or it was not installed according to the manufacturer's specifications. (The sealant must only be used up to a maximum of...) Apply a 2 mm thick layer.)

Here is also possibly the cause of your engine damage.

The excess sealant could have clogged the oil channels as well as the oil pump. Subsequently, a lubrication gap occurs, and then the oil pressure is lost.

The damaged bearing shells are "standard size" bearing shells.

I don't know whether they were installed from the beginning or retrofitted.


Best regards,

Michael

Regarding the storage areas, I can also contribute little. However, dismantling the oil pan doesn't really have much more purpose. What about the oil pump and/or the possibly installed compensating wave module (sorry, I don't know much about MKB anymore).

You seem to have a comprehensive service manual. However, the repair, which wasn't done perfectly with the specified amount of sealant, is obviously noticeable. Have you ever checked the maintenance history at VW and compared it with the service booklet?

The workshop located near the speedometer is unfortunately almost as common as vehicles with actual displays.

Hello,

If you are logged in to Erwin, you can view an electronic maintenance history (Digital Service Plan) using the VIN.

Product and Services -> Digital Service Plan

Is it free for companies? I don't know exactly how this company verification process works, I mean, just typing in the company name during registration.

Most likely, this digital service plan will be updated by the dealership. Anything else would be pointless. There should also be the mileage readings to see.

Best regards,

To access the DSP, you must have registered your company during the registration process. As an individual, it's not possible to proceed based on this list:
Please visit the following URL to compare products: https://erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/showProductCompare.do

I am also unable to access this menu option after logging in. It might be possible to use a flat-rate to access the vehicle-specific online menus.
hg
Herbert

Herbert wrote:

To access the DSP, you need to have registered your company. As an individual, it's not possible to proceed based on this list: Please visit the following URL to compare products: https://erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/showProductCompare.do I am also unable to access this menu option after logging in. It might be possible to use a flat-rate to access the vehicle-specific online menus. hg Herbert

Hm, have you registered your business? It went smoothly for me, I didn't have a flat rate but I paid for 1 hour of research on repair manuals.
Warning: Firefox blocked various pop-ups, but the corresponding applications are actually pop-up windows.

Best regards, Rainer

Quote:

Hmm, have you registered your business?

No, I'm registered as a private individual, I've checked my data.

Quote:

It worked perfectly for me, I didn't have a flat rate but I paid for 1 hour of research on repair manuals.

1 hour flat rate is also a flat rate. If I book again, I'll try the service plan. Without booking a flat rate, this specific menu item does not appear under Products and Services.
hg
Herbert

Now, considering the high costs (at least, that's what I understood indirectly) of the content creator, such a flat rate would definitely be very sensible. Alternatively, just switch to VW and put 10€ in the coffee fund (everything is getting more expensive ). My tip: something is not right.

Just tried it out: The Digital Service Plan works even without an active flat rate. Open DSP and click "Allow Popups".

If the person asking the question provides the VIN, I will check it.

Hello everyone,

The DSP will not be helpful in this case, as the 7N is too old.

DSP has definitely existed since 2018, possibly even earlier.

The repair history is recorded in ELSAPRO.

However, the data here is only complete if all repairs and maintenance have been carried out by an authorized dealer and recorded.

There are also listed all the executed works, as well as all the recorded (and possibly self-installed ) parts.



Best regards,
Michael

Hello everyone!

Thank you for your support! I tried it with Erwin. Unfortunately, there is no digital maintenance history available for my vehicle's VIN.
Work has begun today - both engines are now lying side by side in their assembled state. It appears that the wiring harness also differs. The CFFB has 2 more pins on the "large connector" than the CLLB. I will also be there tomorrow and take some photos.
The wiring harness will be rebuilt by me. I will be taking the fuel injection system from the CFFB. The Turbo (Sharan) was probably also on the verge of a major disaster.

Hello, how are you?
Manuel

Hello everyone!

The renovation is now complete. The most important thing to note initially: The CLLB is functioning without any issues. A test drive has already taken place - everything seems to be in order.

Here is a photo, with the CFFB in the foreground and the "naked" CLLB in the background.

The engine blocks are identical. Ultimately, we decided to keep the fuel injection system on the replacement engine (CLLB) and only retrain the injectors.

There were differences in the oil lines to the turbo (the CLLB with 177 hp likely had a different turbo installed originally).

In the CLLB cable harness, there were 2 pins (connector for the engine control unit) that were not occupied, while they were occupied in the CFFB. Therefore, I rebuilt the cable harness. The sensors all seem to be the same.


Interestingly, the cable harness installed in the Sharan had a chafing point.

Unfortunately, it was sent too early...

The CLLB has an oil pressure between 0.8 and 0.9 bar at an oil temperature of approximately 85°C in idle. The value derived from these socks - especially for someone who is branded - doesn't appeal to me.
When the CFFB experienced a major main bearing failure, the oil pressure settled at 0.6 to 0.7 bar at idle.

A little research could, however, provide clarification. On the CLLB and CFFB, the oil pressure switches are located in the upper corner of the engine block. According to VW, the "reduced oil pressure" is measured here. The pressure values for the switches range from 0.35 to 0.5 bar.
So, there are different versions.

In many other VW engines, the oil pressure near the oil filter, directly after the oil pump, is measured. The switches are designed for values beyond 2 bar in that location. As far as I know, there were also engines where measurements were taken at 2 locations.

Unfortunately, I lack specific experience values for "reduced" oil pressure. However, I assume that the measured values will likely be within the acceptable range.

Conclusion: Therefore, the source of the oil pressure is likely to play a very significant role. I suspect that the reduced oil pressure is measured at the end of the circuit, which is why it is always significantly lower.

Hello
Manuel